Commons talk:WikiProject Arts/Manual of Style/Categories

Cats...in country /Ortsbezeichnung

Hallo Mattes,

I'm missing categories...in country

is it e.g. Santa Maria (Rome) Santa Maria, Rome Santa Maria in Rome

is this possible Category:Adam and Eve by Lucas Cranach the Elder in the Národní galerie v Praze Grüße--Oursana (talk) 19:50, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

yes sure. I'll work on the topic (explaining the root cat.) --Mateus2019 (talk) 18:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Series of artwork

Auch ein Formulierungsvorschlag ist: Paintings of Eleanor of Toledo with her son Giovanni de' Medici by Angelo Bronzino, dann ist schon aus der Überschrift klar, dass es mehrere sind.--Oursana (talk) 23:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

ja, auch gut --Mattes (talk) 05:37, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Piece of art categories

2. Category:The Four Evangelists (Frans Hals): include Category:Paintings of Saint Matthew + nächstes Beispiel verstehe ich leider nicht.--Oursana (talk) 09:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Categories for individual works of art

I cannot find a clear format here for the category name for individual works of art. Looking around, I see all different formats in use. It seems relatively agreed that the work's name alone is insufficient, and that all individual works categories should include additional information to specify exactly which work is covered. I should think a relatively simple format that is compatible with normal dab format in Commons categories should work pretty well:

"Category:<Work Name> (<medium> by <Artist Name>)"

This can be expanded if need be, for example if the same artist makes two works by the same name, we can add a year (or maybe some other applicable dab info):

"Category:<Work Name> (<year> <medium> by <Artist Name>)"

In cases where a work is part of a museum collection, or sub-categories of a work specific to its inclusion in one, we can add the museum and possibly identifier:

"Category:<Work Name> (<medium> by <Artist Name>) in <museum/collection> (<ID/code>)"

Having a basic guideline like this would be very helpful to a lot of users, especially when reviewing COM:CfD proposals. Josh (talk) 13:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

@Oursana, DenghiùComm, Themightyquill, Riley Huntley, Léna, and JopkeB: (pinging recent participants in discussions related to this issue) Josh (talk) 13:10, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Josh, for starting this discussion and pinging me. My thoughts:

• Keep category names as short as possible. For me additions like (<year> <medium> by <Artist Name> in <museum/collection>) and so on, are only necessary if there might be confusion, for instance:
  • If there are two or more works with the same name.
  • If there might be a category name for a topic with the same name.

So I agree that the work's name alone might be insufficient. Perhaps medium, artist name, year and/or museum/collection (in this order) should then be included, but as less as possible. And I think the spelling should be discussed: always every word starting with a capital, or not small words like prepositions and articles?

Note: All of these additions should though always (also) be added in the category description and in the parent categories.

 Question Where was I involved in a discussion related to this issue? I could not find any, though I vaguely remember one. JopkeB (talk) 11:47, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@JopkeB, I think the CfD I saw your name in was Commons:Categories for discussion/2023/10/Category:Beach at Scheveningen in Calm Weather, maybe others but not sure. I was initially of the same mind about not including any dab info in cases where the title was unique on Commons, however I am also aware of how ship names are done, in which all ships get at least a basic dab, even when the name is unique. Personally, I am fine with either way...I just came here to see if WP Arts had reached any consensus, but it appears there is none yet published. I'd like to see at least a basic guideline so users and CfD participants aren't left re-inventing the wheel for each work of art. Josh (talk) 13:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Josh, for the link. I see my opinion in that discussion was less strict than here. That discussion was never closed. So when we come here to a conclusion, we can apply it there as well. Yes, I agree: the main focus is to get at least a basic guideline. I hope the others will give their opinions as well, strict or not.

And I see there that there is another  Question: With or without quotes in the category title (" ")? JopkeB (talk) 16:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

No quotes would be best. When the dab info is in standard parenthesis (), it is more than clear which portion of the name is the title of the work, so I don't think "" in addition are needed. Josh (talk) 01:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion the category name must contain at least the artworks title and the artist. The title of an artworks sometimes differs from institutions (owner or on loan) or in exhibitions, so the artist's name is necessary to describe the artwork. Concerning artworks it is not only the title people are looking for, our users are looking for artworks of a certain artist, whereas the exact title is not known or not so important. This is a very important reason to individualize the artwork. Therefore together with the correct naming of an artwork's category it is necessary to create categories only if it is necessary Commons:categories. Creating a category for an artwork must be the exception, not automatically for every file or artwork. A bigger context is needed, otherwise you have to open lots of categories to find an artwork. But when you create a category for an artwork the artwork must be findable for the users and for this the addition of the artist is necessary and therefore commons praxis in the arts.

see subcats of Portrait paintings of women by Lucas Cranach (I), 19th-century portrait paintings in the Nasjonalmuseet for kunst, arkitektur og design, which all contain the artist's name. In 16th-century oil portraits of standing men at half length 32 of the 33 subcategories contain the artist's name.

This is Portrait of Andrea Doria as Neptune with the subcategory Portrait of Andrea Doria as Neptune (Genoa). Rainbows in 19th-century paintings has 2 categories out of 12 without artist's name, which the users would like to know. If you demand no additional information for unique titles, you first have the problem with the flexible titles and who should know about the uniqueness of a title. This criterium of WP cannot be applicable for the numerous artworks.Oursana (talk) 23:22, 1 February 2024 (UTC)