File talk:Serbia location map.svg

Changes of the map

As Serbia/Kosovo is a difficult topic please don't change this map without a discussion. Thanks. NNW 10:25, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I think that more appropriate would be if you (I would but I don't know how) make it same color and put all of the Kosovo municipalities and mark Kosovo-rest of Serbia line light red. That's my propose.

Red lines are not part of the location map style. NNW 19:29, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Also, shading Kosovo the same as Serbia would suggest that Kosovo is part of Serbia. We can't do that, because maps must portray the real world. If anything, Kosovo should be shaded slightly darker. bobrayner (talk) 20:34, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

The first version of this map was made in 2008 and it stayed that way for five years. Now it is time to show recent changes in the relationship between Serbia and Kosovo. Serbian prime minister Ivica Dačić is aware that times have changed: [1], [2]. Serbia even agreed that Kosovo is allowed to ratify treaties on its own [3] (sorry, only in German). That's why Kosovo is no longer shown in yellow. Please stop the editwar. NNW 20:10, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

If anything, I would favour slightly darker shading for Kosovo, to better represent reality.

Would protection be appropriate, to stop the revert war? bobrayner (talk) 23:17, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

It is POV to show Kosovo as an undisputed part of Serbia as the majority of countries in the world disagree with this. We have to be NPOV and show that Kosovo's status is disputed. IJA (talk) 11:34, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Russia and Serbia not recognize "Republic of Kosovo", therefore you must revert non-american-vandal version.--Region190 (talk) 11:00, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

"Non-american-vandal version"? What's that? Do you really think that's the way to discuss such a topic? And why do you mention Russia? Do you think it would be sensible to mention Canada, too? NNW 11:33, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

My 2 cents: if one wants to live in his own little world then this one should upload a copy of the old version under a new name and clearly mark it as "serbian view" or something similar. --Denniss (talk) 14:01, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

File:Serbia location map pre 2008.svg. I fear it will be the file name which makes this map unbearable for some people. :o) NNW 14:42, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Я вам сказал, что пока все не признают так-называемую Республику Косово, вы не имеете права отделять её от Сербии. Россия, Сербия и Китай не признают это говно, значит надо вернуть нормальную версию.--Region190 (talk) 17:35, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, confirms that you are a nationalist and not willing to discuss. --Denniss (talk) 18:29, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Ваши проблемы.--Region190 (talk) 09:06, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

What would the Poles think about me if I would upload a map of Germany with areas lost after WW2 still marked as belonging to Germany ? --Denniss (talk) 11:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

That's just another replacement of thesis. Germany was Nazi, genocidal and criminal invader of free countries and it had absolutely no rights to take over those territories (and they never had anything to do with Germany), while USA much alike Germany invaded Yugoslavia they had no rights to take over and occupy Kosovo (that before ethnic cleansing by Albanians in every war and under Ottoman empire since 1878-1945, always was part of Serbia). Alex‘s SeeSide 13:08, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Wow, nice, another nationalist. And ethnic cleansing is something completely unknown to Serbs........ The majority of Germans (except some brown idiots) has accepted the loss of WW2 with major loss of territory, still a long way to go for some people in Serbia it seems. --Denniss (talk) 17:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

1) The areas Germany lost after WW2 are East Prussia, Silesia and most of Pomerania. These areas weren't occupied by the Nazis. Please read the history of these areas.

2) Germany confirmed the Oder-Neisse line in the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany/Two Plus Four Agreement in 1990. There is no dispute with Poland.

3) This is about Serbia location map, not about the areas Germany lost after WW2. We shouldn't mix these topics.

4) We don't have to discuss why Kosovo wants to be independent, no matter if it is because of an American invasion of Yugoslavia or if it is the answer to the Anti-bureaucratic revolution by Milošević or if the Albanian population does it just for fun. We have to deal with today’s facts, not their origins. NNW 19:41, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

• Comment I don't see any logic that would support including Kosovo in Serbia map, but marking it only gray without any administrative divisions. The topic is disputed, so it's OK to show different border between Kosovo and remaining territory of Serbia, but there's no reason for any other special tagging in respect of displaying Kosovo within Serbia, the area should be displayed normally as it is on this map. Alex‘s SeeSide 10:22, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
  • You are welcome to take part in the discussion, you are not welcome to start edit-warring. --Denniss (talk) 11:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

For anyone who doesn't speak Russian "Я вам сказал, что пока все не признают так-называемую Республику Косово, вы не имеете права отделять её от Сербии. Россия, Сербия и Китай не признают это говно, значит надо вернуть нормальную версию" translates in English as "I told you that as long as it's not recognised so-called Republic of Kosovo, you have no right to separate it from Serbia. Russia, Serbia and China does not recognise this shit, then have to return to the normal version". Region190, please don't swear in any language. And "Ваши проблемы" translates as "your problem". What Region190 fails to see is that this image doesn't show Kosovo as independent, it shows Kosovo as being a disputed/ contested part of Serbia. That is NPOV as it is disputed whether Kosovo is apart of Serbia or not. IJA (talk) 10:18, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

In fact, Kosovo was separated from Serbia de facto since 1999 when NATO troops entered and Yugoslav troops went out. It declared independence in 2008, and by 2013 the Republic of Kosovo is recognized by the absolute majority of the UN member-states, European Union member-states and NATO member-states. We must remember that other states with similar situations about international recognizement (like Israel and Taiwan) are commonly treated far better than Kosovo in Wikipedia, Wikimedia and other brother-projects...--201.81.180.199 09:49, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree with NNW and most other people, this map should show the real borders. If the map needs any further change it is to make kosovo more grey. If somebody needs a location map which shows earlier history they can use File:Serbia location map pre 2008.svg. Nikswerdhond (talk) 13:32, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Cross-wiki canvassing

Cross-wiki canvassing is a problem with maps like these. Region190 / Aleksa Lukic is not the only example... bobrayner (talk) 10:06, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Your comment "Region190 / Aleksa Lukic is not the only example..." connotes that I've been involved in the incident. Please don't accuse me for canvassing, because I didn't involve in any. Region190 wrote on my talk page, and that's not my fault. Alex‘s SeeSide 10:38, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

You have never edited this page before; on the whole of Commons you made eight edits since July 2012; then minutes after Region190 canvasses you for support on en.wikipedia, you come here to provide exactly that support. That is canvassing. It's unfortunate that this keeps on happening and that the perpetrators see nothing wrong with it. Now, how did Buttons suddenly appear to repeat some of WhiteWriter's reverts, despite having been inactive on Commons for six months? bobrayner (talk) 10:51, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Please note that I've warned User:Region190 on English Wikipedia where the initial canvassing took place and I've brought it to the attention of an Admin, I don't believe there is any need for any action yet unless the offence is repeated. Also I'm happy to translate any Russian or Serbian into English as Region190 seems to think he can say things without us understanding. Well.. he'd be wrong! IJA (talk) 11:09, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Я не понимаю почему если есть отдельная карта этого "государства" надо ещё здесь его выделять? Та карта отображает албанскую точку зрения, значит это должна отображть сербскую.--Region190 (talk) 10:37, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Nicht wirklich hilfreich, wenn jeder in seiner eigenen Sprache schreibt, findest du nicht? NNW 11:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Да нет. Нормально. Отвечайте по существу вопроса о карте.--Region190 (talk) 12:00, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't speak Russian. You will have to write in English or find someone who is willing to translate your contributions. NNW 13:27, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I can read a little Russian, but my writing is laughable.

Region190 has got themselves blocked on bxr.wikipedia, ru.wikipedia and sq.wikipedia (for edits like this), and is topic-banned on en.wikipedia. Still active on be.wikipedia though. bobrayner (talk) 14:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Why you remove serbian maps in russian wikipedia?--Region190 (talk) 15:12, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

We shouldn't have "serbian maps". We should have maps that show the real world. It looks like you're using socks on Russian wikipedia to evade your block; that is bad. bobrayner (talk) 19:37, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Ты наглый пиндос, стремящийся навязать влияние США даже тут. Но я тебе не дам это сделать. Удаляя карту Сербии, никакого реального мира ты не показываешь. Сербия считает Косово своей территорией и она не согласна с такой картой. В чём дело?--Region190 (talk) 19:59, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

User:Region190 Russian comments say 1. "Well, no. Normally. Answer on the merits of the map". 2 "I do not understand why if there is a separate map of the "state" must still allocate it here? That map shows the Albanian point of view, then it should be Serbian" and 3"You insolent ??????? (I couldn't translate) seeking to impose U.S. influence even here. But I will not give you to do it. By removing the map of Serbia, no real world you do not show. Serbia considers Kosovo its territory and it does not agree with such a card. What's the matter?" IJA (talk) 11:36, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

wikt:пиндос: (pejorative) an American. I refuse to discuss anything with Region190 as long as he uses such a depreciative language. Besides, I'm not American. NNW 12:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

@Region190 The map doesn't show the "Albanian view". If the map was showing the "Albanian view" then it would show Kosovo as being independent, however the map doesn't show Kosovo as being independent.

@NNW I too will ignore Region190 if he/ she continues to use foul language. IJA (talk) 12:44, 18 November 2013 (UTC)