Last modified on 25 November 2014, at 07:38

Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests

Return to "BSicon/New icons and icon requests" page.
alt= link=
Archives
Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3

Turntable used as switchEdit

BSicon .svg
vCONTg + num1r
BSicon vCONTg.svg
uvCONTg + numWr
BSicon uvCONTg.svg
CONTgq + num3r
BSicon CONTgq.svg
vÜWB + KBHFr
BSicon vÜWB.svg
uSPLe + uKBHFa
BSicon uSPLe.svg
CONTgq
vSTRgr + num4r
BSicon vSTRgr.svg
uBRÜCKE2
uexCONTgq emKRZo
uexENDEeq + ueBHF
BSicon uexENDEeq.svg
uSTRrg mKRZo
uENDEeq + uBHF
BSicon uENDEeq.svg
CPICrr + utBHFCCa
BSicon CPICrr.svg
tCPICr + tBHFCCa
BSicon tCPICr.svg
uhSTRag
utSTR + uCONTgq
BSicon utSTR.svg
TUNNEL-CUTa + uSTRq
BSicon TUNNEL-CUTa.svg
uSTRrf + lhSTReg
BSicon uSTRrf.svg
uhTUNNELe
CSTR + exENDEaq
BSicon CSTR.svg
exCONTfq
uhSTRlf
CSTRef + mKRZu
BSicon CSTRef.svg
uexSTRlg + uWSLr+r
BSicon uexSTRlg.svg
uexKDSTl
uexSTR2+r + tSTRa
BSicon uexSTR2+r.svg
DSTR-R + CSTR-L
BSicon DSTR-R.svg
uexCONTgq
uexSTRq + uexSTRc1
BSicon uexSTRq.svg
uexENDEeq + uexENDEe
BSicon uexENDEeq.svg

[After moving this discussion from :en, pls. compare with en:Wikipedia_talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms#Turntable used as switch to see how some BS templates in :commons are not working properly!!] --Tuvalkin (talk) 21:52, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

(Assuming this is the right place to ask advice about new icon suggestions and names, and not somewhere in Commons…)

Some railway systems, usually lightweight/lowspeed outfits, use turntables as switches (see this and this for examples; also this, which brought me here), and to symbolize them icons like   (ABZlf) are graphically misleading.

I thought of something with a disc filled with the “construction” color   80A080 , (compare in the example diagram here→) and an off-angle piece of track on it to suggest rotatability. For example sake I made an experimental icon   (DHR legende) (from de:Drehscheibe) that shows the intended pattern when overlaid on any existing BHF icons.

Comments welcome. --Tuvalkin (talk) 04:27, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

No particular comment but I don't see any reason to oppose. And I notice the uneven horizontal bars of CPICs in your map :D Fixed -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 05:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that, too, some errors show only at larger sizes. Thanks for fixing! --Tuvalkin (talk) 17:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
The first linked photo shows a normal locomotive turntable, which has two main functions: (i) to reverse a locomotive; (ii) to direct locos into different tracks within a loco depot. Complete trains wouldn't be run through it. The second linked photo is of a wagon turntable; these were once common in goods yards for moving individual wagons about, but again a complete train wouldn't be run through it. The best example I know of where a "turntable" (or near equivalent) really was used for directing complete trains onto different routes, albeit not at full line speed, was the en:Listowel and Ballybunion Railway in Ireland; see this junction on that line. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:55, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
  • The 1st image shows an "X" with a turntable at the center — too few tracks for a loco shed; it could be a switching device on an open line, which is what I need to depict with this icon. It is a table top model, anyway.
  • The 2nd is a segment of a Decauville set, yes.
We know what turntables are, and they usually are not depicted in line diagrams, as details inside railyards are bundled inside a single   (DST). This new icon could be used for regular turntables in track diagrams, though, and to show accurately line end reversing points: either   (uENDEa) (driving seat at both ends, or backwards motion),   (uWSLa), or a turntable.
This curious monorail junction you found is one or the few cases of a turntable used as a switch, just like in this article (a harbour railway), which prompted me to do this.
Of course “turntable” meant in a broad sence, i.e., a segment of open line pivoting to align a consist to one of several possible tracks, usually including a reverse option, some times intended to be run through, others needing always some pivoting (as in the top red turntable in the diagram above, where trans can go without stoping through 4-2, 5-1, 2-3, and 5-3, but allows, say, 5-2, with stop and turn) — details of which probably better dealt with in text.
--Tuvalkin (talk) 17:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
The first image is indeed a model; but you'll notice that no matter how you position the turntable bridge, it's impossible to run straight through from one side to the other without bumping into a buffer stop. Turntables in loco depots need not direct locos into individual stalls: whilst that is true of a en:roundhouse, it's not necessarily true of a straight-through shed. The model turntable definitely doesn't have "too few tracks for a loco shed" - a cursory flick through a book like
  • Lyons, E.T. () [] An Historical Survey of Great Western Engine Sheds 1947, Headington: Oxford Publishing Co ISBN: 0 902888 16 1.
reveals many loco sheds having turntables with just one or two tracks at one side, and the merest stubs on the other, such as Westbury Template:Harv, Truro Template:Harv and Birkenhead Template:Harv. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:55, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Icon designEdit

Question, what if the icon uses   80A080  overlappes with other icon of same color like bridge, tunnel, damm, cut? -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 06:07, 13 June 2011 (UTC) Template:Bs-map

Yes, I thought of that and that’s why I added so many items with this color in the example diagram at the side. I suppose that, if it gets too cluttered, details can be either discarded or presented in a less compact fashion — that’s what we do routinely when choosing, say,   (vÜWBl) over   (ÜWBol)+  (ÜWBo+r), or   (eKRZor) over 3×3 kKRZ icons tiled to show the same.
Or, alternatively, the icon design could be less “solid”, maybe adding white (as in   (DST)) and only a thin ring around in   80A080 .
--Tuvalkin (talk) 17:15, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
BSicon .svg exKDSTa BSicon .svg
Estaleiro de obras
exKDSTl
exKRZ + lDRH
BSicon exKRZ.svg
exENDEeq
Depósito de carvão da Corys Coaling & Co.
BSicon .svg exSTR BSicon .svg
BSicon .svg exDST BSicon .svg
Depósito de carvão da Blandy Brothers & Co.
BSicon .svg
exENDEaq + exSTR
BSicon exENDEaq.svg
exENDEeq
BSicon .svg exSTRlf exENDEeq
The aforementioned diagram (in the flesh) with both methods used, for comparison. Useddenim (talk) 23:50, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
And after some thought, I prefer the new icon as being easier to understand. Useddenim (talk) 23:51, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I’m glad you do, and thanks for the testing in real. Pls note that the use of   (exBST) in this diagram is very misleading, as it implies a «minor non-passenger station», and also that the user who created it (AJPValente) is not dead-set on it — on the contrary, he was the one who asked me to create a new icon for this situation. --Tuvalkin (talk) 00:58, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Note also that   (DHR legende) is a mere mask, and overimposing it on   (lBHF),   (exlBHF),   (ulBHF),   (uexlBHF),   (lBHF orange),   (lBHF violet), etc whatever is a visual hack. It probably should be deleted and replaced with filled-in single-icon images, as this overlapping is semanticly incorrect — these are not stations, but unusual switching devices. (And I just noticed it is misspelt — should be DRH, from de:Drehscheibe, not DHR.) --Tuvalkin (talk) 00:58, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I recreated this without the need of an underlying mask:   (lDRH) (using scructure color, and white — a la   (INT) and   (DST)), and replaced it the examples above. Too bad I forgot to fix the name to DRH :-\ -- Tuválkin 04:44, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
✓ Done. Useddenim (talk) 13:20, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Uploaded my version of DHR/DRH. Comment please. And I don't think there's any chance to overlap DRH with bridge or damm, so I would just let it go. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:15, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

20px black outline, ouch! That’s my 1st attempt while playing with it locally, and I endup to upload the solid version, so I cannot say I prefer it — but I can say that the exact depiction doesn’t matter too much for me. :-) --Tuvalkin (talk) 04:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Icon fixesEdit

The bridge markers in   (vTBHFu) are placed under the station, but this makes it impossible at small sizes to tell whether it is a -u or -o icon. Along the same line, is it really necessary for   (vTBHFuo) to have such a different design? Circeus (talk) 18:48, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Whether a stretch of parallel lines should be squeezed toghther to accomodate a bridge or other such item or not was apparently never set in stone. Just compare   (mvWBRÜCKE) with   (mvWBRÜCKE-uexWBRÜCKE) — there are many of such pairs, and they should be homogenized. --Tuvalkin (talk) 11:07, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
I'll try to make a list of them.Circeus (talk) 14:16, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

File:BSicon pHST.svg & File:BSicon epHST.svgEdit

moved from User talk:Useddenim

Hi Useddenim, just came accross your new inventions. I don't think we really need those icons for several reasons:

  • most important you can't see the details at 20x20px   (epHST) looks pretty much the same as   (eBST)
  • furthermore, if the facility is off use, it doesn't matter whether it was a stop with limited service, so   (eHST) will do, a stop without service (limited or full ...)
  • finally we already have   (xpHST) which is pretty much the same as   (pHST), both icons showing stops with limited service, but the first one is better recognisable!

Regards a×pdeHello! 12:30, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

It's debatable whether   (xpHST) is more recognizable than   (pHST): it seems to be dependent on one's monitor and browser settings. Useddenim (talk) 13:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)
You'll need a very large Monitor and a very low resolution to be able to recognize the outlook of   (pHST).
And furthermore,   (xpHST) is already introduced and used! a×pdeHello! 22:35, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Drawbridge iconEdit

moved to #HBK

TraverserEdit

(moved from Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests#Turntable used as switch)

Question, I am looking at creating icons for traversers. But what would be the correct titles for them?

text symbol renaming proposal
left section - STRtl     (TRRl)
middle section - STRtb     (TRRm)
right section - STRtr     (TRRr)

Mackeral (talk) 09:30, 27 September 2012

The t suffix indicates a tunnel feature. Offhand, I'd say this more appropriately falls into the FoRMation family of icons. Useddenim (talk) 17:00, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I would suggest renaming either to TRR (en:TRansfeR table/TRaverseR) or SBN (de:Schiebebühne). Useddenim (talk) 17:04, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I like TRR better. There’s too many IDs starting with "S" already. -- Tuválkin 01:08, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I worked a bit on the code and geometry of the icons, too. Now it is a 60px stroke, its center offset 120px from the top and bottom edges of the icon. It touches the side of the icon where it ends, though — I’m not so sure if that’s a good idea. -- Tuválkin 01:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I added these:   (vTRRl),   (vTRRr),   (vTRRm), and   (vTRR) — and these last two is why   (STRtb) should be   (TRRm). -- Tuválkin 02:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Apparently we were thinking along the same lines. I've also added half-width and open pit versions. (Typically, there is only one bridge per pit, but there are a few large shops with two bridges. I believe that one such example was at London Transport's Acton Works.):   (dTRRl),   (dLTRRl),   (dTRRm),   (dLTRRm),   (dTRRr),   (dLTRRr),   (LTRRl),   (LTRRm),   (vLTRRm) &   (LTRRr). Note the slight changes:track is over (not under) the structure, and the use of white fill. Useddenim (talk) 04:37, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Anyone considered having Tuvalkin's design be -o and Useddenim's -u (assuming we're including both, that is)? I know the tracts are not technically going over/under, but as far as the icon is concerned, it fits well and is intuitive, especially since L- is best reserved to replace the LUECKE icons. One design needs to be picked between the   (STRtl) and   (dLTTRl) one, though. Circeus (talk) 20:09, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Request in canal locks: two lane, double chamber locksEdit

I'd like to have available a BSicon with a double lane, two lock chamber canal part. Two lanes are basically   (uvSTR), a single chamber (two mitres, upward) lock is   (uvLock5). The single lane two chamber (three mitres) upward is   (uSTAIRu). A possible name could be:   (uvSTAIRu)?
Completeness:The downward version could be made too, (named   (uvSTAIRd)?) For completeness, one could add variants in colors pale blue, green, and otherstroke types (dotted).
Alternative to the whole: BSicon double lane with single mitre: showing   (uFGATEu) twice parallel, that will (less elegantly) combine with a   (uvLock5) into two-chamber lock stair. Note: I can handcode a bit of SVG and also use Inkscape, but the available icons do not allow this editing. There is a load of (wikipedia?) editors code in there, my Inkscape does not get. -DePiep (talk) 11:45, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

✓ Done:   (uvSTAIRg) and   (uvSTAIRf). These can be easily edited in a text editor; for all the other necessary colors, just replace "fill:#039" with the appropriate RGB value. NB the filename suffix, too: Not "up" and "down" but "gegen" and "fahr". -- Tuválkin 08:51, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks! Can you point me where to look to prevent these verbose svg files with lots of (wm?) script code in it? -DePiep (talk) 10:58, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
This was left unanswered: Extraneous, overly verbose, and unparsimonious code in SVG files is not added by Wikimedia (which does not modify the files that are uploaded in a wiki, even parsable files such as XML/SVG), but they come from programs such as Inkscape. To avoid it, please use a plain text editor. More here. -- Tuválkin 08:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
About   (uvSTAIRf) and up/down: "fahr" is counter-intuitive here, actually wrong even. Either meaning "water flow" (basically top-down in BS maps), it is wrong (waterflow is upward), or meaning "traveling direction", that could be both directions in the locks. But I won't propose changing the icons. It's just why it took me so long, still, to get the naming. ;-) -DePiep (talk) 11:33, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
About commons svg code: done. I found User:File Upload Bot (Magnus Manske). Will look at that one. -DePiep (talk) 11:50, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Category:BSicon/New icons‎Edit

Moved from Talk:BSicon/Categorization#Icons.

IconsEdit

Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms explains the BSicon naming logic, and lists the most-often used root names. Admittedly there are many exceptions, but the recent trend has been for new roots to be three-letter abbreviations, and where possible bilingually English and German. (e.g. FoRMation, LeGenD(e), NULl, SPLit/SPaLten, etc.) Your new icon names are both verbose and overly-exact. Can   (uPANAMACANAL-BASINSr) only be used for a diagram of the Panama Canal? Your comment [1] implies that you think so. (And it also incorrectly has a u prefix, which would denote this colour:     .)

I haven't raised the issue of your icon naming before now, as I am not involved with Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Waterways so I can't speak to their thoughts on your contributions. However, I do have to question some of your edits, such as to   (BLq): What was your rationale for the "refinement" that made no visual difference but bloated the svg code by 700%?

Useddenim (talk) 19:11, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

(no content, just a technical q:) You Useddenim's move from Usertalk [2] I appreciate and support as serious editorship (thanks). I suggest you move this subsection to a better place, say [3] (a place I know too). -DePiep (talk) 20:09, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

crossing of 2 tunnels reduxEdit

Thanks for your suggestion. But in your example, I have problems to identify, which tunnel description belongs to which tunnel. The portals are in different height, but both belong to the row "Tunnel Füllbach". I think, track symbols don't necessarily describe the length of a building, so I would keep the actual version in the article. Thank you very much for creating the symbols! --Andre de (talk) 12:33, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

OK, here's two more suggestions. Useddenim (talk) 14:17, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
Using POINTER
exWBRÜCKE1 exWBRÜCKEe
Füllbach brücke (90 m)
exTUNNELa + POINTERrf
BSicon extSTRa.svg
exSTR + PORTALf
BSicon exSTR.svg
Tunnel Füllbach (1113 m)
extKRWl+lo extKRWr+ru
exSTR + POINTERr
BSicon exSTR.svg
exTUNNELe
17,182 Tunnel Höhnberg (824 m)
exBS2l exBS2r
16,258 Niederfüllbach (Abzw)

Using numbers (the "French" method)

exWBRÜCKE1 exWBRÜCKEe
Füllbach brücke (90 m)
exTUNNELa + num1r
BSicon extSTRa.svg
exSTR + num2l
BSicon exSTR.svg
1: Tunnel Füllbach (1113 m)
extKRWl+lo extKRWr+ru
17,182 2: Tunnel Höhnberg (824 m)
exSTR + PORTALg
BSicon exSTR.svg
exTUNNELe
exBS2l exBS2r
16,258 Niederfüllbach (Abzw)

Icons (still) in specific projecsEdit

de:Spezial:Präfixindex/File:BSicon
  • 2 3 icons, both trivial to assimilate
en:Special:PrefixIndex/File:BSicon
ja:特別:前方一致ページ一覧/File:BSicon
  • 13 RIV icons to assimilate either as WASSER or as blue/canal icons
  • 12 Tokyo station icons to assimilate as legende versions of a set of SBHF-JP (several colors) icons ✓ Done as several lDSTs. -- Tuválkin 11:28, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
  • 02 other icons, both trivial to assimilate ✓ 完了 YLSS (talk) 17:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
ru:Служебная:PrefixIndex/File:BSicon
  • 66 icons: some trivial to assimilate, others need discussion — both at naming and at geometry/semantics levels
    • 23 left: 5 esoteric, 18 (MM) were an experiment to represent the Moscow Metro map in a traditional style. YLSS (talk) 16:02, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Lets have fun! -- Tuválkin 02:40, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

“Funny” how new icons keep popping up, especially in de:wp. Didn’t everyone got the notice that Commons exists and all free media should be here instead? -- Tuválkin 11:28, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

BScompEdit

There are presently 37 "BScomp" icons at en.wp; for their origin, see en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Archive 2#Icon Composition. Initially, I wanted to propose deleting them as olde and unused. Now I see what a fool I am. These icons are a treasure! Such thing as en:File:BScomp xSTR.svg even have opacity = 0.4 = 1 - 0.6 that we "deduced" and re-introduced at Talk:BSicon/Colors, and these icons were created back in 2007! I really feel myself like some petty mortal scribe discovering a work of an ancient Elven sage (sorry for the Tolkienesque comment, just can't help myself). Looking in detail:

And yes, all salvaged icons should actually be redrawn. Inkscape is evil. YLSS (talk) 18:41, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Hehe, those are gems in the rough, yes. I’m usually against masks (because they force the background to be   RGB:F9F9F9 ), but cannot say some of these are not greatly done masks. As for the duplicates, people at en:wp need to mark them for deletion and have any use changed to Commons. -- Tuválkin 10:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I got puzzled. The existent masks were all derived from   (dMASK), and are primarily used at no.wp and sw.wp. However, these Wikipedias use plain #FFFFFF white for the RDT template background, and thus the files are also plain white. On other Wikipedias, the difference with #F9F9F9 does show up, but as yet they have been used only inside bridges, where it isn't noticeable. Do we need separate masks for #F9F9F9 Wikipedias and for #FFFFFF ones? If not, should the aforementioned BScomps be re-uploaded with #F9F9F9 or not? YLSS (talk) 12:52, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

In theory, separating white and offwhite masks would be the way to go, in a purely classificative approach. However, it would be best for the BSicon project if users of the unusual version accept to change it (in the icons and in the templates, maybe also in some diagrams) from #F9F9F9 to #FFFFFF, in my opinion. -- Tuválkin 14:02, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't really understand what you mean... So which colour, in your opinion, should have (a)   (MASKl) and (b) en:File:BScomp BIG.svg : #F9F9F9 or #FFFFFF?   (lENDEa mask), incidentally, was repainted by Useddenim from #FFFFFF to #F9F9F9. YLSS (talk) 23:59, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
I mean that they should all be #F9F9F9, but also that users who used them thus far as #FFFFFF should asked/heard, or at least warned. -- Tuválkin 01:35, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Hmm... I've managed to replace their usage in a couple of cases, but in other places it would be really hard to substitute them... A different shade will really show up, and I doubt that those Wikipedias would consider changing the background of their templates just because of a bunch of icons. And indeed, they have a right to use a different layout; if something goes wrong, that will be their difficulties. It the present case, however, since for the most part the icons are their innovation, I would say we should let them stand as is - but rename them to e.g.   (MASKq white). The only mask presently employed in kosher Wikipedias is   (MASKm) (the name should then be occupied by #F9F9F9 mask.) YLSS (talk) 19:28, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
And why did you add all those bridges to the mask category? They seem to stand out, even taken together with BScomps... YLSS (talk) 23:59, 24 May 2013 (UTC)
Icons including both masked areas and something else (with or without track lines) should be categorized as such, but I agree that they dont belong in the same category as icons which are only made from mask surfaces and background. Maybe have those bridges in a subcat ...formation/mask etc. -- Tuválkin 01:35, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

More numbers wantedEdit

Why does num4m exist only? I need more numbers to mark platforms. 江漢思歸客 (talk) 10:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Why? Because the gnomes who create these icons are lazy, that’s why. Work, gnomes!! (I have plans for drastic improvement and expansion of this section, but now I think I’ll postpone it. Just because.) -- Tuválkin 10:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Would be nice if you could tell the gnomes to use the same font aswell... ;) As it is just now I find that we uses 3-4 different fonts for the text icons. --Civilspanaren (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
That's one of the things that needs to be revamped. Not so much a matter of fonts per se, but something called hinting, that has to do with low resulution rendering of vectorsets. I’ll put some ideas out ASAP, and once they cleared from discussion we can go dully on adding all necessary icons. -- Tuválkin 22:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

HBKEdit

Could some kind soul please create a vertical version of   (HBKq) so that I can use it in here to represent the Kingsferry Bridge? Although the bridge in question is a vertical lift bridge, I thought this icon would be an improvement on the existing bridge icon. Ravenseft (talk) 18:50, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I wont do it because I’m not really convinced that   (HBKq) has an acceptable geometry as it is right now. A non-q version of it makes this even more evident. I suggest we discuss the matter at Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness#Drawbridges. -- Tuválkin 23:45, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

One year later…

Can there be created a logo   (HBK), lift bridge (not sideways like this:   (HBKq)), as this is the only one that exists. Thanks!
Benhen1997 (talk) 13:59, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Well, «looks bad in vertical» was the 1st criticism against that design. Indeed, this icon is not iconic enough. That’s why I suggested a completely different shape:   (HBK(!)) and   (HBK(!)q). But the need for a vertical drawbridge that looks good (and for a redesign in general) is not new and is not going away — so let’s settle the matter. -- Tuválkin 16:27, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Limited Service LineEdit

To show a limited service line, would a double striped line work?   (rSTR)  (rSTRrf)  (rSTRlf)  (rSTRrg)  (rSTRlg) Hopefully will stop people using tunnel icons as limited service. User:Deonyi 15:11, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Possibly. But maybe we should use the p prefix then, like   (upBHF) etc? YLSS (talk) 18:46, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
I did think of that but I realised, isn't p express not stopping?User:Deonyi 15:11, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps we need to eliminate the p prefix and replace it with a new root, such as PHF (for Partial/partiell Bahnhof). Useddenim (talk) 16:12, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
There is also   (pHST)}. Useddenim (talk) 16:14, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Perhaps p could be reclassed as 'Limited or Restricted Service'. This makes sense regarding the original 'p' and 'xp' icons and also the restricted line ones. A root would be a bit overkill and we would need three new roots. One for stations, one for halts/stops and one for track.Deonyi 09:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

BSicon .svg KBHFa BSicon .svg
0.0 km Flinders Street (FSS) Zone 1
BSicon .svg LSTR BSicon .svg
Craigieburn line
BSicon .svg HST BSicon .svg
5.6 km Newmarket (NKT) Zone 1
CONTr rABZrf BSicon .svg
Craigieburn line
BSicon .svg rHST BSicon .svg
7.0 km Showgrounds (SGS) Zone 1
BSicon .svg rKBHFe BSicon .svg
7.8 km Flemington Racecourse (RCE) Zone 1

I added:   (rBHF)  (rHST)  (rKBHFa)  (rKBHFe)  (rABZrf).Deonyi 12:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Well, why not. I would only recommend using #F9F9F9 background for the middle part (so that underlying track won't show up if overlaying). And the last name makes me uneasy - we should be able to differentiate between a BSicon rSTR.svgBSicon rSTRrf.svg  vs.   vs. BSicon rSTRrf.svgBSicon STR.svg  vs.   (ABZrf). YLSS (talk) 18:00, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes,   (rABZrf) is definitely an   (m) icon. And I think that transparent background is a good idea, in that it will allow more versatility; e.g. BSicon STRrf yellow.svgBSicon rSTRrf.svg  etc. Useddenim (talk) 20:38, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Quite an original idea, I like it! Still, how would you propose to handle BSicon uSTRq.svgBSicon rSTR.svg ? That would require a   (STR F9F9F9), or   (STR white)... YLSS (talk) 07:07, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
Possibly would suggest using STR white or do BSicon rSTR.svgBSicon uSTRq.svg  instead.Deonyi 07:27, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

WASSER Continuation HeadsEdit

As an experiment, I decided to test some WASSER CONTs.   (WCONTr),   (WCONTl),   (WCONTr1) and   (WCONTl1). I think they help add clarity to the diagram by telling the reader that the river or stream actually continues and that it is not a lazy editor forgetting to add in arrows. Example usage can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Deonyi/sandbox Deonyi 11:00, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Good idea. I prefer the bigger arrowheads. -- Tuválkin 11:59, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
Of course, there would most likely be a variant that uses one icon only, to remove the need to expand BS templates to BS3.User:Deonyi 12:41, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
Since we are dealing with physical streams and not virtual lines here, i.e. they have a constant direction of flow, maybe we should rather use arrows pointing to the same direction? Like   (uCONT-r) +   (uCONTl)? YLSS (talk) 15:27, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
Somethins like these:   (WCONTra) or   (WCONTla)?'' Actually, I think arrows would be fine. Adding directional arrows to longer rivers in a diagram would work but I do not think for a simply bridge, it is needed.User:Deonyi 08:39, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Parallel rivers?Edit

Moved from User talk:Vanisaac

The creation of missing and new icons is appreciated, I'm not sure of the usefulness of   (vWASSER) and   (vWASSERq). While it is not uncommon for canals to parallel rivers (BSicon uv-STR.svgBSicon vWASSER-.svg  etc.), I can't think of where parallel rivers would occur. Useddenim (talk) 01:52, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking in terms of a multi-cell uISLAND, when you have crossings over an island and the watercourses on both sides. You'd want to have vWASSER, overlaid with BRÜCKE. I'm still trying to figure out how to make a watercourse equivalent to vSTRa/vSTRe, but that was the original idea anyway. I was also thinking of times when you have two forks in a river that move their intersection downstream below a crossing or border. An editor could very well want to indicate that the two forks are still separate, but that they occupy a joint floodplain. I do agree that a river/canal pairing is probably a very good idea as well. To be honest, a part of my impetus was to examine and adapt the SVG code for watercourses, so canal icons weren't on my mind at the time. Vanisaac (talk) 02:31, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
WASSER+1 BSicon .svg
WASSER+1
WSPLa BSicon .svg
WSPLa
vWASSER + BRIDGEvq
BSicon vWASSER.svg
BSicon .svg
vWASSER|O=BRIDGEvq
WSPLe BSicon .svg
WSPLe
WASSERrf BSicon .svg
WASSERrf
Oh, you mean like this? Useddenim (talk) 04:33, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
Yup. And you are thinking along the lines of this, right? Vanisaac (talk) 05:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
WumvSTRa BSicon .svg
WumvSTRa
vWSTR-uSTR BSicon .svg
vWSTR-uSTR
uWmvÜWBl BSicon .svg
uWmvÜWBl
vuSTR-WSTR BSicon .svg
vuSTR-WSTR
uWmvSTRe BSicon .svg
uWmvSTRe
uWmvSTRa BSicon .svg
uWmvSTRa
WumvÜWBl BSicon .svg
WumvÜWBl
WumvSTRe BSicon .svg
WumvSTRe
This brings three questions.
  1. Should we use the "m" prefix for e.g.   (vWSTR-uSTR)? Or to the hell with it, when there are two colour-prefixes (u & W), and only use it for prefix-less bahn-red?
  2. Should splits like   (uWmvSTRa) use gradient transition like other icons in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set mixed/transition/u & water?
  3. Erm, how do you imagine   (uWmvÜWBl) IRL? Is that a canal passing over a stream (in which case some portals should be added), or is it a stream that crosses a constant level canal at the same altitude (in which case I would favour a gradient transition), or is it a remnant of a stream that flows into the canal at one side and is replenished e.g. from a weir at the other (in which case a combination of both solutions could possibly do)?
-- YLSS (talk) 18:54, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
  1. I don't know. The naming scheme is still unintuitive to me, so I just name things by analogy and publicize so that if I get something wrong, it gets noticed.
  2. I didn't think you'd use   (uWmvSTRa) if it were no longer navigable beyond that point. So unless you can think of a usage scenario where that would be the end of the shipping lane, I don't see that you'd want a gradient.
  3. I was thinking of places where the canal uses a navigable stretch of river to provide a crossover for the adjacent canal. Sometimes this is done with a bridge over the waterway, but often, it's just a pool in the river. Vanisaac (talk) 22:39, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
  1. I thought it had been decided that the m prefix was only for  regular  + another colour.
  2. I think a transition would look better from an æsthetic point of view. Useddenim (talk) 12:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
  3. Use   (uDOCKS),   (ulBHF) or   (ulHST) for pools. Useddenim (talk) 01:02, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

I think we may want to look at the names for   (uWmvÜWBl) and   (WumvÜWBl). Looking through the rest of the RDT catalog, I'm seeing that the   (vÜWBl) seems to be for crossovers by bridge. The simple crossovers are just   (vÜWB). Am I reading this correctly? Vanisaac (talk) 06:51, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Hesitantly, “yes”. (But I can't find a translation for “Überwerfungsbauwerk” to determine what the original root means.) The l and r suffixes are to simply indicate which line is “superior” i.e. crossing above the other. However, I'm not sure that two different modes should be using the ÜWB root. Useddenim (talk) 12:17, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
  (uemvÜWBl) and   (uxmvÜWBl). There is precedent. Vanisaac (talk) 16:20, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
"Überwerfungsbauwerk" is the German term for "flying junction" or "crossover". --U-Bahnfreund (talk) 15:12, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Continuation on curvesEdit

BSicon uCONTfl.svg
uCONTfl
BSicon uexCONTfl.svg
uexCONTfl
BSicon uexCONTfl !.svg
uexCONTfl_!
BSicon uexCONTfl!.svg
uexCONTfl!
BSicon uCONTfl!.svg
uCONTfl!
BSicon uCONTfl !.svg
uCONTfl_!
BSicon uABZld^l.svg
ABZ-type w/
new arrow

WRT recent uploads by Vanisaac, e.g.   (CONTfr),   (uCONTgl),   (fCONTrg) (category):

  1. Although a consistent naming scheme within this separate class is evident, I'm uneasy with its correlation to the established ones:   (CONTlg) &   (CONTgl) vs.   (STRlg)... I would rather have STR → CONT, e.g.   (STRrf)  (CONTrf) &   (STRrg)  (CONTrg), with "q" used for rotating 90° to get the other direction:   (CONTrf)  (CONTrfq or CONTqrf).
  2. What about an alternative design to the right? (BSicon uexCONTfl.svg) So that the geometry is consistent with other CONT's.

-- YLSS (talk) 10:12, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

  1. Yeah, I tried to adapt the STR nomenclature but got nowhere. Ok, I'll freely admit that those names don't make a lick of sense to me in the first place. So I just treated them like a combination of existing continuation arrows, eg   (CONTl) +   (CONTg) =   (CONTlg). "q" codes might be a way around it, but I think it might be horribly confusing, especially since the ostensible goal of matching the STR turns would be lost.
  2. I'd prefer to see something closer to the 90 degree turn than your redesign, and there is some room for a larger arrowhead in the existing design. I do agree that the heftier arrow does show a bit better at rdt size. Vanisaac (talk) 11:44, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
  1. Yeah, "q" is always confusing (or rather requiring brain-work), but as yet I haven't seen no other solution for the inherent problems of direction-of-travel paradigm. And it's gradually becoming more universal. Another scheme that I can come up with is to use the more "modern" "r/l/+r/+l" suffixes, and to prepend them with "f" or "g" for forward/backward arrow. Like this:   (CONTfr),   (CONTgr),   (CONTf+r),   (CONTg+l) etc.
  2. How about the second variant (BSicon uexCONTfl !.svg)? YLSS (talk) 14:27, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
BSicon uCONTfl.svgBSicon uexCONTfl.svgBSicon uexCONTfl !.svgBSicon uexCONTfl!.svgBSicon uCONTfl!.svg
I've re-built all of the files to match the second alternate BSicon uexCONTfl !.svg and uploaded them, but I'm a bit concerned at how crowded the arrow is. Check them out in the diagram, below left, and let me know. In the mean time, I've included another alternate, above, and we'll maybe see how it looks. Vanisaac (talk) 10:44, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
When placed on top of STR, the thinner variant is certainly superior, so if anybody uploads ABZs with arrows (no idea how to elegantly name them), it would be better to use that design. In case of plain curves, both are more or less OK to me (although both have deficiencies). YLSS (talk) 13:22, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Your new design (BSicon uCONTfl !.svg) is even better: the golden mean. YLSS (talk) 19:53, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
I was trying to keep the "heft" of the continuation arrows, but shortened the point to give room for the curve to actually show when overlapping a straight. I've also mocked up an ABZ-type with the new arrowhead, and I've added it to the diagram to see how it looks at 20px, but I don't know. Maybe it's folly trying to design for the unexpected. Vanisaac (talk) 22:56, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
I think the comparison should be made with ABZ, not STR:
  (ABZgr)   (ABZgl)   (ABZg+l)   (ABZg+r)   (ABZqr)   (ABZql)   (ABZq+r)   (ABZq+l)
  (CONTfr)   (CONTfl)   (CONTgl)   (CONTgr)   (CONTlg)   (CONTrg)   (CONTlf)   (CONTrf)
Useddenim (talk) 16:12, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
Heh, ABZs as you listed them combine the "deprecated" pattern (lf, rg) and the modern one (l, +l). I alt'ed them to be consistent (I hope you don't mind); and yes, with g's, since in any case   (CONTl) is occupied. YLSS (talk) 16:31, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
I'm good with your fix, but there is another question that hasn't been addressed yet, namely: Are these new icons needed? Useddenim (talk) 20:40, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
HST BSicon .svg
STR + CONTgr
BSicon STR.svg
BSicon .svg
Single column diverging line, using O1=
STR CONTgl
Double column diverging line
ABZlf ABZgr+r
not suggesting connection to above
HST HST
mENDE mENDE
uABZld^l uSTR
ABZ-type
uSTR + uCONTfl !
BSicon uSTR.svg
uSTR + uCONTfl!
BSicon uSTR.svg
Optional arrowhead designs
uCONTfl ! uCONTfl!
I can't speak to necessity, and I'd be pretty hard pressed for the vast majority of BSicons on that basis anyway. All I can speak to is the design impetus - namely indicating a diverging line without adding an extra column to the width (See rdt at right) Vanisaac (talk) 22:21, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
Well, that one is certainly better than "the German way", i.e. ABZs without any arrows, IMHO ;) YLSS (talk) 23:40, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

┌───────────────────┘
I didn't think about this when I came up with the names, but I could see someone making ABZ-style extensions, and the question is whether the names would hold up for that. What do you think about changing these to "base icon"+CONT. So   (STRrf) +   (CONTr) =   (STRrf+CONTr). You could then have ABZ-type arrow icons, like ABZlg+CONTr for the icon in the second row of the table, with ABZlg+CONTf and ABZlg+CONTg for arrows in the other directions, and maybe even ABZlg+CONTrg / ABZlg+CONTgr with multiple arrows. Vanisaac (talk) 00:54, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Unnecessary. Overlays work just fine, and the extra variations (one or the other of the two branches out of use) would just add even more icons. Let's just keep them as CONTs and work out a rational scheme for the suffixes. Useddenim (talk) 02:23, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
And maybe that's true right now. I know that I don't want to expand beyond single arrows, but I'm not prepared to make an unequivocal statement about future need. For example, a   (uABZld) built out of   (uSTR),   (uCONTgl), and   (uCONTfl) might be too crowded with larger arrowheads. We have a class of lCONT arrowheads with a naming scheme that gives us something to start with and extend to other curves. So the question is how would you take the pre-existing icon nomenclature and adapt it to something new; 'cause that's our opportunity here. Which would this be if we wanted to be both transparent to editors and accommodate future expansion?   (CONTfr),   (CONTrf),   (STRrf+CONTr),   (STRrf^r), or   (something else)? Vanisaac (talk) 06:59, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

I've got it figured out!Edit

  (CONTr)
  (CONTr+g)
  (CONTr+f)
  (CONTl)
  (CONTl+g)
  (CONTl+f)
  (CONTl+4)
  (CONTf)
  (CONTf+r)
  (CONTf+l)
  (CONTg)
  (CONTg+r)
  (CONTg+l)

Useddenim (talk) 00:05, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Can I ask what the semantics of the "+" are supposed to be? Pretty much all of them look backwards to me (CONTr+g looks like it should be CONTr+f, and vice-versa). Vanisaac (talk) 06:18, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
"+" usually means "out of", and so it does in Useddenim's proposal AFAIU, if "f" and "g" are taken to mean top and bottom of the icon, right? However, I still have the same uneasiness with it in that this way of thinking produces different results from the more or less established patterns:   (CONTg+r) vs.   (STR+r). "f" & "g" have already been used with CONTs to mean "forward " & "backward" direction (as indeed they are supposed to mean, Fahrtrichtung und Gegenrichtung), namely in   (uCONTf) +   (uCONTfa) etc. Indeed, "CONT+ABZ" is another instance where there is a potential clash of "g" = Gegenrichtung and "g" = geradeaus. Maybe we should indeed employ some other suffixes to mean directions? YLSS (talk) 07:31, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
↓ = f (forward/Fahrtrichtung), and ↑ = b for backward, or z for (de) zurück (or simply "last")? Is   (CONTl+4) any clearer? Useddenim (talk) 11:58, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Aaaargh, you're blowing my mind! Please have a pity on me! Yet another well-established BSscheme, when both points are stated explicitly. BTW, in this case there is even no need for direction suffix: it's either "l+4" or "4+l". I give up. It's impossible to have these curved arrows named coherently unless we rename all the BSicons coherently. P.S. We should also find a way to name this one: BSicon uvSTR+1-.svgBSicon ulCONT1f.svgx20pxBSicon l-CONTffq.svg . YLSS (talk) 19:56, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
What's the problem?   (CONTl+4);   (CONT4+l). You know well enough that the name parses out as [ROOT]·[to]·[from]. We don't need to rename everything (but you're welcome to try) as long as each group is internally consistent. And your wild and wonderful doesn't need naming beyond {{bso|l-CONTffq|v-STRq|ulCONT1f|uvSTR+1-}}. Useddenim (talk) 00:30, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
So how would you name this BSicon uABZld^l.svg? Vanisaac (talk) 03:59, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
  (uCONTl+fg): underground CONT to left from forward & backward. Useddenim (talk) 12:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
The "g" question: how would you then differentiate   (*uCONTl+fg) from BSicon uCONTfl.svgBSicon uCONTgl.svg ? YLSS (talk) 16:11, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
See below Vanisaac (talk)

So, I'm looking for actual feedback here, because I'm still a little confused. Why is this not right?

  (CONTr)
  (CONTr+f)
  (CONTr+g)
  (CONTl)
  (CONTl+f)
  (CONTl+g)
  (CONTl+4)
  (CONTf)
  (CONTf+l)
  (CONTf+r)
  (CONTg)
  (CONTg+l)
  (CONTg+r)

Vanisaac (talk) 08:28, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Because the "natural" direction is as a hypothetical train moves down the page from top to bottom. Take   (CONTl+4) as an example: it breaks down as CONTinuation icon, pointing to the left, coming from (+) corner 4. Got it now? Useddenim (talk) 12:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
You described the one example I didn't alter since it already makes sense; I want to know about all the others. Your system seems to indicate the exact opposite side it's actually "from". Vanisaac (talk) 12:37, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
4 g 1
r l
3 f 2
These are the cardinal and ordinal points used for BSicons:
The accepted naming of CONT icons is that the suffix indicates the direction the arrowhead is pointing. Also accepted (originally for STR curves going in odd directions, but since expanded to ABZ and other groups) is that the + symbol followed by a letter or number indicates where the line is coming from. Because directionality is not only implied but explicit with CONTs, the normal top-to-bottom convention is superseded. Perhaps this table is clearer?
Ok, that's a lot clearer. The problem I was having - and a persistent problem I see with this scheme - is that it breaks the semantics of fahrtrichtung and gegenrichtung. Vanisaac (talk) 03:26, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
  (CONTr)
  (CONTr+g)
  (CONTr+f)
  (CONTl)
  (CONTl+g)
  (CONTl+f)
  (CONTf)
  (CONTf+r)
  (CONTf+l)
  (CONTg)
  (CONTg+r)
  (CONTg+l)
  (KRWr)
  (KRW+r)
  (KRWl)
  (KRW+l)
  (KRWgr)
  (KRWg+r)
  (KRWgl)
  (KRWg+l)
I would also suggest reading Talk:BSicon/Renaming and its archives. Useddenim (talk) 22:59, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Formalizing proposalEdit

Which goes back to my earlier thought. What's wrong with   (uABZld^l) and BSicon uCONTfl.svgBSicon uCONTgl.svg  (uABZl+l^l)? Just have the standard icon name, suffixed with a caret, and the arrow directions, in a set pattern, maybe f g l r 1 2 3 4, so BSicon CONTfl.svgBSicon STR.svgBSicon lCONTff.svg  (ABZlf^fl) and BSicon KRZ.svgBSicon lCONTgg.svgBSicon lCONTggq.svg (KRZ^gr). Parallel lines would be f g l r -f- -g- -l- -r- and the order would resolve ambiguity; so r-l has the top left and both right arrows, l-r has both left arrows and the bottom right, rl- has bottom left and both right, and lr- has both left and top right. CONT would be reserved for half-length,center-terminating continuation arrows, and lCONT for bare arrowheads. Vanisaac (talk) 22:45, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

  (STRrf)
  (STRrfVr)
  (STRrfVg)
  (STRlf)
  (STRlfVl)
  (STRlfVg)
  (STRl+4Vl)
  (STRl+4V4)
  (STRrg)
  (STRrgVl)
  (STRrgVf)
  (STRlg)
  (STRlgVr)
  (STRlgVf)

* edited to use "V" as arrow suffix.

  (STRrf)
  (STRrfW)
  (STRrfN)
  (STRlf)
  (STRlfE)
  (STRlfN)
  (STRl+4E)
  (STRl+4Nw)
  (STRrg)
  (STRrgE)
  (STRrgS)
  (STRlg)
  (STRlgW)
  (STRlgS)

* alternate using compass points.

For one thing, they're NOT   (STR)! (  (STRf),   (uSTRg) etc are used for lines with a superimposed direction.) Useddenim (talk) 22:59, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
Well, that would be a problem with the names of   (STRrf),   (STRlf),   (STRrg), and   (STRlg), not the arrow scheme. None of the above codes conflict with either   (STRf) or   (uSTRg), so I'm not sure what your actual objection is. "STR" is an abbreviation of "Strecke" which means "route, road, track, distance, line, section, stretch, reach, way, run" and has nothing to do with "straight", despite the English mnemonic. Vanisaac (talk) 04:58, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Article titles#Special characters discourages the use of "Characters resembling quotes or accent marks". 128.205.248.219 20:25, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
A) it's not an article title. B) that page lists ʻ ʾ ʿ ᾿ ῾ ‘ ’ “ ” c and combining diacritical marks over a space character - none of which include a caret. C) you could use any character - the caret just seemed the most arrow-like. Vanisaac (talk) 21:44, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I think you're deliberately ignoring the point 128.205.248.219 is making. And if you want to get technical, Commons:File naming states that one should “Avoid "funny" symbols (control characters, unneeded punctuation, etc.) that might be significant in future wiki markup.” It continues, “It is a good idea to stick to graphemic characters, numbers, underscore (space), ASCII hyphen/minus/dash, plus, and period (dot).” and uses this definition of graphemes: “A fundamental unit of a writing system corresponding to letters in the English alphabet.” (My emphasis added.) Except for the use of ! in experimental files, AFAIK all BSicon names conform to the preceding standard. Useddenim (talk) 22:10, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
BTW, ˆ is used as a diacritical mark in French. Useddenim (talk) 22:14, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
No, I read the en.wiki policy and legitimately thought the IP was, although commenting in good faith, distinctly mistaken in the applicability of the cited policy. And while the haĉek / circumflex shape (erroneously called a "caret" in ASCII / ISO 8859 standards, and the derived Unicode code charts) is used as a diacritic in many languages, the "combining diacritical marks" of the policy are a actually the range of Unicode characters (general category = Mc - mark, combining) in the ranges U+0300..U+036F, U+1DC0..U+1DFF, U+20D0..U+20FF and U+FE20..U+FE2F. I do, however, take your point about conflicting with possible future wikimarkup as being a compelling reason to opt against operator/punctuation characters in icon names.
What I am distinctly disappointed in is that every comment so far has persistently ignored the actual idea that arrow icons are going to be easiest to use, and most useful and applicable to any future-made icon if they are named as a combination of standard icon names, followed by a suffix indicating the location and direction of superimposed arrows. Like I said, there is nothing special about the caret, it just looks kind of like an arrow, so it's nice mnemonically, but it is otherwise just a random way of indicating arrow codes follow. If it would make things easier, we could use + N S E W Ne Se Sw Nw –N- -S- -E- -W-, or use ARR + f g l r -f- -g- -l- -r-, or V (another nice arrow shape) + f g l r -f- -g- -l- -r-. The idea still remains the same, stick a suffix on the regular icon name to indicate added arrowheads. Vanisaac (talk) 00:13, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

"Docks"Edit

Please comment at Talk:BSicon/Renaming/Canals#"Docks". (Just in case not everybody has it in watchlist.) YLSS (talk) 17:02, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

"Background"Edit

Category:Icons for railway descriptions/background. 500 × 1,500. Well, since it is labelled "testing", let's wait. YLSS (talk) 10:20, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

One Two Three more copycats (or great minds think alike)Edit

moved to Talk:BSicon

FADEEdit

split from Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness#Tunnellücken

Back to the topic, here's my suggestion to the new design of LUECKE with opacity gradient:   (sameboat001). This is actually an obsoleted design for CONT set. Unlike the current LUECKE. It requires f/g/r/l/1/2/3/4 suffix to indicate the direction the tracks face toward. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 05:58, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

I like that design! I always wondered why   (FADEq) remains unused. If this idea is established, we should choose what to use: "f"/"g" or "e"/"a". BUT: that thing is suitable for branchings, continuations etc., that is, Lücken used in the French way. However, the original idea of interruptions is a part of a line that is not presented with due elaboration; and such fading icons are not suitable for a longer stretch of Lücke that eventually reconnects to a normal line. YLSS (talk) 10:19, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Check   (MFADEf),   (MFADEg),   (MFADEfq),   (MFADEgq). I tested them at ru:Шаблон:Шаля — Екатеринбург, both with red lines at the top & the bottom, and with green tunnel lines at the bottom (unless this will be removed by conservative rupedians). YLSS (talk) 12:27, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
I used mask in my opacity gradient sample in case of changing background color, but I admit this is the easiest option to achieve fading effect. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 13:21, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Certainly non-masked icons for basic colours need to be uploaded if the idea is given a go. I only uploaded masks so as not to create such icons for every possible colour (I needed an f-green in a diagram). BTW, initial response at ru.wp seems to be positive. YLSS (talk) 15:04, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
Ah...I think you mistook me. I mean the masking of SVG which only allows the "masked" area to be painted. For Шаблон:Шаля — Екатеринбург, I think the original arrow CONT is sufficient. en:Template:North London Line is one of the maps that actually justifies both fading LUECKE and arrow CONT because the middle interrupted sections are too long to be connected by the dotted LUECKE. Anyway, I think we can and should develop the FADE set instead of changing the current dotted LUECKE. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 01:23, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Need your expert help again regarding rail pictogramsEdit

Moved from en:User talk:Sameboat

Hello sameboat, Would you please help me with some pictograms for conceptual route map designs of Riverline?
I need this pictogram as well as this one as svg format. Can you be of assistance?
If so, I will also require a twin platform station to go in between these two pictograms. Left side: heavy rail (red) in use but station platform not in use. Right: Light Rail (blue), line not in use or platform (light blue)

I think I may of found it.... unless there are alternatives I'm missing? Wiki ian 09:17, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
I don't blame you for not being a participant of the BSicon project. You can have the png images under your own temporary user category, but adding BSicon category to png files will make someone else furious. I ask YLSS to help you because he knows better of BSicon naming rules. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 11:16, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
  (xmSPLa). Useddenim (talk) 12:17, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
  (vSHI1+l-uexSHI1+r) &   (vSHI1l-uexSHI1r). I usually try not to touch those multi-coloured icons, because their naming is far from being settled, and just because I don't like like them. But I already thought once about uploading one of such splits, so here you are. PS. Wiki ian, if you don't have a needed icon, you can usually employ overlaying. In this case, just type uexv-SHI1+r|O1=vSHI1+l- to place   (vSHI1+l-) on top of   (uexv-SHI1+r). (Aargh, Useddenim, what are you doing?! Whose icon is up to deletion now?) YLSS (talk) 12:51, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Well, we already have   (mvSTRe) uploaded 25 May 2011 and   (umvSTRe) from 2013-02-10 (both of which should actually be renamed as (vSPLe)s), and I beat you to the punch. Useddenim (talk) 19:14, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Verily you do ;) But that's because I was trying – as usually! – to understand what an amalgam of prefixes should be used for such an icon. 1) I would like to see it   (muxSPLa), because there are both red and blue colours (recollecting the unfinished discussion at Talk:BSicon/Colors). 2) Some icons use the dazzling "uxm" order; so should it be "mux" or "mxu" here?! 3) "x" is used for parallel lines when the main line is out of use, that is the left one; but "m(u)" vs. "um" is used for parallel lines when the left line is red – not the main line! So should it be "mux" or "umx"?! To summarise: <screaming in fear> aaah! Please don't make me do that! Really,   (vSHI1+l-uexSHI1+r) is more straightforward, even if longer... YLSS (talk) 19:49, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
I forgot about the mixed parallels. I just simply stuck the “m” prefix onto   (xSPLa). Perhaps we should be considering something like
  (SPLa)   (SPLaxr)   (SPLaxl)   (exSPLa)
  (SPLe)   (SPLexr)   (SPLexl)   (exSPLe)
similar to
  (KRWlr)   (KRWlxr)   (KRWrxl)   (exKRWlr)
Useddenim (talk) 22:45, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Mheh... Didn't I suggest from the start that we use "SHI1lr" instead of "SPLa"? That would have been similar to KRW. For SPLs, such "l"/"r" suffixes are misleading:   (SPLar) ><   (SPLaxr).
That said, is (SHI1uxlr) a possible name for   (vSHI1+l-uexSHI1+r)? YLSS (talk) 14:23, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Useddenim, I don't understand your actions, and I'm totally against your moving   (vSHI1l-uexSHI1r) to that "xmSPLe"! First of all, why "xm"??? Color prefixes go first: "ux", not "xu"! And secondly, it would be better to call it "muxSPLe", or maybe even "umxSPLe"! I would have reverted your move if there was such a possibility... YLSS (talk) 14:23, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I have to agree that interpreting a SPL as vSHI-SHI (or SHI+SHI), while possible and formally correct, is in most cases an unnecessary cluttering of the icon name. In this case, any variation of mSPLa seems to be the simplest approach. -- Tuválkin 23:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Which one? That's the question. YLSS (talk) 23:41, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
See en:Wikipedia » Route diagram template » Catalog of pictograms » junctions » 2-way » Mixed for an existing (accepted) group. Useddenim (talk) 00:08, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
I know of it (even though I'm not happy with it), but you linked to non-parallel mixed icons. For them, the "main" track is the same both for "ex"ness and for "(u)m"ness:   (ABZlf)  (eABZlf),   (ABZlf)  (mABZlf). But what we have here?   (SPLe)  (eSPLe) but not   (SPLe)  (mSPLe).
Secondly, at Talk:BSicon/Colors#g-Green, we more or less agreed that two colour prefixes are better than a single "m", and what now?
Lastly, most other icons at Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set mixed/parallel railways have been moved from e.g. (mvSTR) to   (vSTR-uSTR). Why do you two stick with SPLs??
And also an interesting historical excursion. In July 2012, Tuválkin proposed and Useddenim implemented moving i.a.   (vBHF-uexKBHFa) to (mvBHF-exKBHFa). Afterwards, "base color indicator "u" in the middle of the name" became more common, and in July 2013, Tuválkin proposed renaming   (vuexKBHFe-BHF), but Useddenim checked him, because the only icons that used the "m" prefix were those that he/they had moved to those titles previously. And only recently, I have renamed some of those station to their original titles, and presented them in a neat and useful table, for which Useddenim even thanked me. I fail to understand the logic now...
-- YLSS (talk) 08:47, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
If I recall correctly, the thinking back then was that there were too many variables involved with parallel stations (lines: in & out, used & unused, metro & heavy rail; and type: BHF, DST, INT, ACC) to try and develop any simplifying shortcuts, but that the ABZ icons with their two lines and two colours were OK with the m/um shorthand applied to the underlying –/e/x/ex states. And the renaming of (xmSPLa) was to make it fit into catalog tables. (BTW, did you see the new template {{en:WP:RDT/BSa6x}}?) Useddenim (talk) 18:49, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I saw it, a good one. And yet another proof (though we both know that already) that catalogue pages can be generated for any series of icons with names of any complexity, they just need some rules of naming.   (vSHI1l-uexSHI1r) and similar can easily be presented with {{en:WP:RDT/BSa4x2m}}; (umxSPLe) vs. (muxSPLe) would require creating a new such template (not that that's a reason against choosing such a scheme). YLSS (talk) 20:12, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Thankyou, could you help some more?Edit

Thankyou very much for the help :-) I have another problem - I dare say this is a good question. When applying train stopping types in route maps, I can designate passenger or freight stations. And yet, when using the rint template (or incorporating directly into the map), there are only passenger-related connections (bus, ferry) to choose from. does it not make sense to have a cargo ship and a truck pictogram? or do they already exist and I'm not looking in the right place? I hope I didn't cause a fight about naming guidelines :-( Wiki ian 14:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I’m sorry, but I have no idea what are you talking about. What is the {{rint}} template? -- Tuválkin 23:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
BSicon .svg DST
implies land-only connection (i.e. road)
BSicon .svg STR
WDOCKSr DST
implies a harbour
@Wiki ian: No-one’s ever asked for them.
@Tuvalkin: {{Rail-interchange}} at en:WP:Template:Rail-interchange. Useddenim (talk) 00:08, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Upon further thought, see the sample diagram to the right. IMHO, there’s no need for the interchange icons you suggest. Useddenim (talk) 00:24, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

A few moreEdit

Looking to get   (hKRZh3+1) and   (hKRZh2+4).

Do you mean   (hKRZ3+1h) and   (hKRZ2+4h)? Useddenim (talk) 22:53, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
YES! Lost on Belmont (talk) 13:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

And since I'm here, is there an icon to represent a rail yard? Thanks in advance. Lost on Belmont (talk) 05:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Uhm, what do you mean precisely? There are   (hKRZ3+1o) &   (hKRZ3+1ho). YLSS (talk) 05:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Ah. I still haven't got the conventions of these things down yet. (Looks like I need a second h in there someplace...) I'm looking for this   (hKRZh) kind of crossing, but at these angles:   (KRZ3+1) and   (KRZ2+4). Lost on Belmont (talk) 13:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Hmmm... You know, I've tried creating them, but here's the thing. All "elevatedness" in the top-right and bottom-left quarters (as viewed) degrades into two tiny spots, while the formations in the top-left and bottom-right quarters can be drawn either with a straight junction or as a curved line; which one is better? If the latter, you can get it straight away: BSicon lhSTR-L+1.svgBSicon lhSTR-R3.svgBSicon KRZ3+1.svg (KRZ3+1lhSTR-R3lhSTR-L+1)  & BSicon lhSTR-L2.svgBSicon lhSTR-R+4.svgBSicon KRZ2+4.svg (KRZ2+4lhSTR-R+4lhSTR-L2) . YLSS (talk) 14:59, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
And I suppose you will also need these in adjacent cells:   (lhSTR-R+c4),   (lhSTR-R+c3),   (lhSTR-L+c2) &   (lhSTR-L+c1). YLSS (talk) 15:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
That should work just fine. Thanks! Lost on Belmont (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
BSicon unSTR.svgBSicon uPSL.svg (uPSLunSTR)  if you don’t want to use   (uDST). Useddenim (talk) 12:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Lost on Belmont (talk) 13:19, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

And a few more...   (uexhBS2c1),   (uexhBS2+lr),   (uexhBS2c4), and   (uexhBS2lr). I tried playing around with formation overlays, but proper ones for this application don't exist (or I wasn't diligent enough in hunting them down). Or perhaps I can just get the formation pieces for greater applicability via overlays since there seem to be virtually no elevated pieces for column shifts. Lost on Belmont (talk) 14:17, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done. It appears that there had been only 1½ attempts to create elevated column shifts before. YLSS (talk) 11:43, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Also looking to get these two:   (hKRZ2+4ho) and   (uhKRZ2+4ho). Lost on Belmont (talk) 14:17, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done. YLSS (talk) 10:08, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

(As a philosophical note...) It's quite interesting to note that   (lhSTR-L2) and   (lhBS2c1) look very similar, and quite sad to note that they are different enough to justify creation of both. If elevated formations were placed not 130px away from the center of the track, but 125px, it would be possible to re-use many of them for parallel tracks etc. Currently, BSicon STR-R.svgBSicon lhSTR-L.svg (lhSTR-LSTR-R)  look just a bit crooked if paired with    (hSTR) in the adjacent row. YLSS (talk) 11:54, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

uexhBHF + uexlBHF-L
BSicon uexhBHF.svg
uexhBHF + uexlBHF-R
BSicon uexhBHF.svg
Laflin
uexSHI2gl + lhSTR-Llf
BSicon uexSHI2gl.svg
lhSTR-Rrf + uexSHI2gr
BSicon lhSTR-Rrf.svg
uexSHI2g+l + lhSTR-Lrg
BSicon uexSHI2g+l.svg
lhSTR-Rlg + uexSHI2g+r
BSicon lhSTR-Rlg.svg
uexhCPICl uexhCPICr
Marshfield
Thanks for the above. Unfortunately I'm beginning to notice all sorts of quirks like that. (Something else I really don't get is why certain bits of this page are being archived after being up for less than a month while others are still here from three years ago...) In fact, both of the formation icons look like they could possibly work for the situation at right, but in fact neither does.
To finish out this project I'd like to either get the elevated branchings for   (uexSHI2gl) and its mirrors/whatnot or the remaining formation pieces that aren't in the diagram. Lost on Belmont (talk) 19:49, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
I archived those where everything seems to have been done, and left those where something is still to be done, or where I have thoughts about yet something more that can be done. Do you need a sharp-pointed junction of elevated sidings at that place or maybe a curved one? (Commons still does not support more than one level of overlaying.) YLSS (talk) 23:29, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
My apologies. I assumed that the archiving here, like at en:wp, was done by a bot. I was expecting a sharp-pointed junction, however the curved one you've provided works and is probably better if it can be applied to more than this kind of junction. Thanks. Lost on Belmont (talk) 13:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
No, my name is not Миша (Misha/Misza), although I often feel myself nothing more than a bot. Beep. YLSS (talk) 16:14, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Staying ahead of the curveEdit

Someday these bad puns are going to catch up to me…
I just realized that there are a whole set of (KRX) icons (BSicon STR3+4.svgBSicon KRXu.svg  etc.) that are analogous to the (KRZ) set (  (KRZur) et al.) As I see it, there are three possibly ways to designate the curves:

Curve        
Left/right l+l +lr r+r lr
Corner Nº 2+1 23 3+4 14
Compass pt. e s w n

Which is preferable? Useddenim (talk) 13:01, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

As a purely theoretical exercise (at least so far), how would you name e.g. BSicon STR2+1.svgBSicon STR3+4.svgBSicon KRXu.svg  under the first and second proposals? And how to differentiate it from BSicon STR23.svgBSicon STR14.svgBSicon KRXu.svg ? YLSS (talk) 16:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
  • BSicon STR2+1.svgBSicon STR3+4.svgBSicon KRXu.svg   (KRXul+lr+r) (KRxu2+13+4) (KRXew)
  • BSicon STR23.svgBSicon STR14.svgBSicon KRXu.svg   (KRXulr+lr) (KRXu1423) (KRXns)
which is why I prefer the compass points, but that means four more suffixes (although they are already in use with the (RP) icons).
However, upon further thought, the l/r suffixes should be:
       
+ll lr +rr +lr
giving BSicon STR2+1.svgBSicon STR3+4.svgBSicon KRXu.svg   (KRXu+ll+rr) and BSicon STR23.svgBSicon STR14.svgBSicon KRXu.svg   (KRXu+lrlr). Useddenim (talk) 18:58, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Maybe, in order to simplify these really long names (imagine an analogue of   (KRZlr+lr)) and to stay within the bounds of the existent suffixes (for railway icons), we can postulate that for such icons we can turn our head by 45° counterclockwise? Since, as we have agreed, the "main" line is from "4th corner" to "2nd corner". So that:
       
+l +r r l
Unless, of course, one can image how "l" & "r" can be used in a more appropriate way with KRXes. YLSS (talk) 21:40, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I agree. Worse come to worse, we swap in the numbers:
       
+2 +4 4 2
Circeus (talk) 23:31, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Request for new pictogramsEdit

Moved from en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template

Can someone please release the following 2 pictograms to this catalog?

  • Freight truck
  • Freight/container ship

I have asked before and been told that its not needed. I struggle with this logic - Why can we go into intricate detail with passenger stations and not freight stations/hubs? Wiki ian 23:16, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you just include something like [[File:Sinnbild LKW.svg|20px|link=Intermodal freight transport]] (Sinnbild LKW.svg) into the text column? Useddenim (talk) 11:59, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Probably because I wasn't aware of its existence.... Got another a freight ship up your sleeves too?
Also, what if I need a grey version of the truck? (resenting not operating) Wiki ian 18:04, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
I just created File:Sinnbild LKW grau.svg Sinnbild LKW grau.svg which is grey. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:45, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks heaps. A freight/container ship would also be great. Wiki ian 18:57, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
If you can find an existing .svg file that is not grey, I can turn it grey. It's basically a case of opening up the file in a plain text editor (such as Windows Wordpad), altering all the fill:black to fill:#646464 saving under a new name and uploading. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:33, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Two possibilities are the US DoT symbol Aiga watertransportation.svg [[File:Aiga watertransportation.svg|x16px]] and Ferry.svg [[File:Ferry.svg|20px]]. Useddenim (talk) 01:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
OK, I've created File:Aiga watertransportation grey.svg Aiga watertransportation grey.svg and File:Ferry grey.svg Ferry grey.svg - both are grey. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:49, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Not to be too fussy, but the standard grey colour for out-of-use BSicons is      (#aaaaaa), not      (#646464). Useddenim (talk) 18:42, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Oh. I looked at   (BHF black) vs   (exBHF black) --Redrose64 (talk) 19:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
There’s also   (BOOT) and   (exBOOT). Useddenim (talk) 23:45, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I lightened all three from   #646464 to   #aaaaaa. The "File history" entries aren't very good; the "File changes" box, despite its size, won't accept templates, and doesn't like an Interwiki prefix for links either. I wanted to include the Interwiki prefix so that when you view the file description page on Wikipedia, the links will come here instead of to the non-existent w:Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests#Request for new pictograms. --Redrose64 (talk; at English Wikipedia) 10:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

MulticolorverseEdit

May I congratulate you with the first ever three-coloured icons:   (vfmKRZu-umKRZu),   (vumKRZu-fmKRZu),   (vfmKRZo-umKRZo) &   (vumKRZo-fmKRZo). (At least I don't recollect any to have existed before.) YLSS (talk) 18:33, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

What about   (xKRZu)? That's got three colours. --Redrose64 (talk; at English Wikipedia) 17:41, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I meant three colour sets, without taking into account any exness or subsidiary features. Otherwise, even   (vuINT-eINT) has four colours (five if incl. white). YLSS (talk) 17:49, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Black and White and Grey are not colours.[citation needed] User:Deonyi 05:20, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
So if you disregard "exness", these also fail then:   (veBHF-uBHF)   (vuBHF-eBHF)   (veHST-uHST)   (veBHF-uexBHF)   (vuexBHF-eBHF)   (veHST-uexHST)   (vuexKBHFa-eBHF)   (vuexKBHFe-eBHF) --Redrose64 (talk; at English Wikipedia) 16:05, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm afraid you completely misunderstood me... My initial "congratulations" were actually full of sarcasm and of spite. I have a strong distaste for multicoloured icons (i.e. those with prefix "m" etc.) and I always dreaded the day when an icon is uploaded with more that two colour schemes. And that day has come... God save us. YLSS (talk) 19:25, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Mixed Junction requestEdit

Hi everyone, I wanna ask you if it's possible to have a modified version of   (umABZlg) and   (umABZrg), but with the "red" color levels over the "blue" ones (heavy rail over the light rail). I looked for them but seems nobody needed them before me :) Thanks a lot in advance! --Alex10 (talk) 20:56, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

✓ Done.   (umABZlg1) and   (umABZrg1). Vanisaac (talk) 21:24, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Wow, really really quick!!! Thanks so much Vanisaac! :) --Alex10 (talk) 22:24, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
It's actually incredibly simple. I just downloaded the two files, opened them in a text editor, and cut and paste the two curves in the opposite order. It took longer to get all the licensing and categories in the upload form than it did to actually create them. Vanisaac (talk) 22:33, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes, that is easy, but the result is really bad if you do not pay attention to what are you dealing with! Both the original files and those you made are hideous (no offence, just constructive criticism). The lines are not uniformly 100px thick, there's a lot of non-integer values and even more inkscape junk etc. Next time, choose some small and neat files, like   (uSTR) and   (uSTRrg), and combine their code.
But that's the easy part, really. The difficulties begin when you try to invert a name for such an icon that would fit the established patterns. Appending an "1" to an existent name is a thing that should never, ever be considered. The only more or less explicable names for these icons that I was able to come up with are   (uSTR+STRlg) &   (uSTR+STRrg).
@Alex10: I would advise you to use overlaying next time. It's easier, quicker, and poses less problems. I have edited that diagram, you can check the syntax (near the top). Also, don't use 5= and similar for text fields: that is really inconvenient when you deal with different BSn templates in one diagram, and will create quite a lot of hindrance if ever those diagrams are converted to Lua. YLSS (talk) 10:21, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
YLSS I saw your edit in that diagram, thank you for it, especially for the overlay syntax explanation (I thought it wasn't possible to use this technique with the it.wiki BSn templates). Ok also for the text fields advice!
Vanisaac also thanks for your explanation, I'm pretty much inexpert with the vectorial graphic :). --Alex10 (talk) 12:27, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Indeed, it wasn't possible at it.wp until I rewrote those templates. Since Template:Percorso_fer is protected and everybody ignored my requests at 1 & 2, use Template:Percorso_fer1. YLSS (talk) 14:54, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

The topic of light vs. heavy rail hierarchy was discussed here three years ago, so I’m surprised that the (mABZ) icons were never updated. (Also, according to current naming practices, isn’t this the correct geometry for these names: BSicon -STR+r.svgBSicon uSTRq-.svg (uSTR+STRlg)  & BSicon -STR+l.svgBSicon uSTRq-.svg (uSTR+STRrg) ?) Useddenim (talk) 13:36, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

No, those would be BSicon -STR+r.svgBSicon uSTRq-.svg (uSTRq-STR+r)  & BSicon -STR+l.svgBSicon uSTRq-.svg (uSTRq-STR+l)  (hyphen, not plus). YLSS (talk) 14:54, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Back for more elevated iconsEdit

Okay, so this time I'm really focused on continuations. I'd like to get   (uCONT-r) as   (uhCONT-r). (I've tried mashing code from two different icons together and it was a complete failure.) Additionally, I'd like to get uh versions of this type of CONT   (CONT4+l) but 1) with the line originating at the bottom and pointing to the upper right hand corner of the box and 2) with the line originating at the top and pointing to the lower right hand corner of the box.

As a side note, I've "successfully" created the u version of   (DABZlf) (it renders properly in my browsers) but whenever I attempt to upload it to commons, I get an error message about a "corrupted file" or somesuch. Recreating the file results in the same message. Any and all help is appreciated. Lost on Belmont (talk) 04:11, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Your code should look something like this:
Apparently someone’s gone and changed something in the uploader code (again), and it no longer accepts the <!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd"> declaration. Useddenim (talk) 13:19, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
  (uhCONT-r) uploaded. Ignore my previous comment, as this icon does contain the !DOCTYPE declaration. Useddenim (talk) 13:40, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Ah! This was the problem:
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?>
<svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" height="500" width="500">
I downloaded the existing file and only changed the color values to what I needed. I guess the original file has some antiquated code. Swapping what was there for that has made my second "iconbashing" attempt   (hHSTACC) work. Thanks!
Interesting to note how much simpler your code is versus that in   (DABZlf). As a side note, I realized I could get the u version by overlaying instead of using an entirely new icon about 8 seconds after making my initial post... Lost on Belmont (talk) 14:37, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Also there are issues regarding this that have come to my attention. As of now we have three u icons for the same direction, a standard, h, and ex. Unfortunately, these are how the icons are named:   (uCONT-r),   (uhCONT-r), and   (uexCONT+gq). Which is the appropriate naming convention?
Also, the elevated sections on   (uhCONT-r) are thinner than standard and therefore don't align properly with other icons. Lost on Belmont (talk) 03:50, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I proposed renaming (uexCONT-r) to   (uexCONT+gq) here, as a more explicable name (and without the confusing l/r!). So the other icons should follow that. WRT geometry: while the current design is a pretty idea at 500px, it doesn't really work at 20px: I only see plain "elevated sidings" that just terminate at some midway point. Maybe something similar to   (uhCONTfq) would be better? YLSS (talk) 08:51, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Also, Lost on belmont, what design did you have in mind for "uh versions of this type of CONT   (CONT4+l)"? Something dotted? Or like this: BSicon uhSTR+1.svgBSicon ulCONT1f.svg (ulCONT1fuhSTR+1)  & BSicon uhSTR2.svgBSicon ulCONT2f.svg (ulCONT2fuhSTR2) ? YLSS (talk) 08:51, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
So far all of the elevated continuation arrows use dots and, as such, I was expecting dots for these arrows as well. (As a side note, the geometry of   (uSTR+1) looks a lot better than that of   (CONT4+l).) I personally like the dots as it serves as a transition from "there" to "not there" and with the arrowhead suggests exactly what it should. I find that I really like the visual cues of the new icon, where the elevated portions add to the negative shape of the reverse arrow, but for consistency's sake think we should stick with dots for elevated continuations. Lost on Belmont (talk) 13:34, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I redrew the icon with dots, but extending past the end of the coloured centre line in order to preserve the negative space. I also merged the last two dots (at the connecting edge) to emphasize the directionality. Useddenim (talk) 18:34, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
So I see. Looks excellent! Lost on Belmont (talk) 00:19, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Any headway on the straight/corner CONT pieces? Lost on Belmont (talk) 01:33, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Recent uploadsEdit

These don't appear to be legitimate BSicons (neither by naming nor usage):

  •   (BusSIT MetroMed)
  •   (BicycleParking MetroMed)
  •   (Info)
  •   (SUBWAY-CHN alt)

(Note that the first three were all uploaded by the same individual.) AlgaeGraphix (talk) 22:37, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

The first three now renamed, one is pending a deletion request. The fourth,   (SUBWAY-CHN alt), could be kept as a BS icon, though. -- Tuválkin 00:23, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Rolling-lift bridgeEdit

What is the most suitable icon for a rolling-lift bridge? Specifically, the bridge that carries the West Wales Line over the River Towy to the west of Carmarthen railway station. Here are some pictures of that particular bridge; it's similar to this one, but with fewer fixed spans. The principal feature is that the opening span doesn't rotate about a fixed pivot, but rolls along like this.

The icon needs to have the same colours, layout and orientation as   (WBRÜCKE) or   (WBRÜCKE1) except for the style of the bridge. It's for use on en:Template:West Wales Line RDT which currently uses   (DBK) which is wrong, because that's for a swing bridge - one which rotates in a horizontal plane. --Redrose64 (talk; at English Wikipedia) 13:09, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

AFAIK, there's an old but still unarchived proposal to unite all such things into one design here. YLSS (talk) 17:43, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Halved stations on parallel lines acrossEdit

Useddenim has recently introduced a brand new class icons which I have grouped in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/half width/parallel lines/stations and stops/BHF/halved. While I understand their purpose (so that one can construct e.g.   (KBHFxeq-KBHFeq)), I'm not happy with their naming (sorry for being such a douche). First of all, all of them require "q"s after each BHF part of the name, since by dropping "v" we only change the way we divide the icon field and not the way we name the icons (as I have explained here). Secondly, those of them where there is only one line still require another BHF in their names (something like   (dBHF--L) should show only a station on the upper line and nothing at all in the lower half of the icon), so probably it should rather be   (dBHFq-lBHF), but I'm not sure… And lastly, something should be settled with the "L"/"R" suffixes. Some time ago I renamed   (BHF-Lq) (from a title with "t"/"b"), and nobody seemed to protest. Deriving from this, and also from this discussion, (BHFq-KBHFeq-R) should show a rotated version of   (vBHF-KBHFa-R)... On the other hand, other examples of "halved" stations are   (BHFl) and   (lBHFl)… So I'm quite at loss how to name them properly, maybe some innovative pattern is required... YLSS (talk) 20:39, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

To be honest, I didn’t have any real idea either as to how they should be named. (As YLSS rightly points out, they are a new class of icons.) So I opted for the simplest naming possible; by all means go ahead and change them to something better. I used -L and -R suffixes since l and r tend to be used for movement or direction (  (BHFlf),   (STRlf) etc.) I don’t suppose that anyone would believe that I created them solely to have a legitimate (xBHF) icon? Useddenim (talk) 21:30, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Upon re-reading YLSS’ comment above, isn’t   (BHFq-KBHFeq)(-R) a rotated version of   (vKBHFe-BHF)(-R)? Useddenim (talk) 21:38, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Also (not that I would want to see the diagram that would require it), we need a way to differentiate between the left and right halves of this compound icon, and a connection to left (top) or right (bottom) adjacent. Useddenim (talk) 21:41, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
We have the h suffix for half (as in   (STR2h+4), so what about (dhlBHF) and (dhrBHF) prefixes for the left and right halves, which leaves the suffix available for connection to adjacent? Useddenim (talk) 21:50, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
The prefix h is reserved for high level tracks. a×pdeHello! 19:37, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Oh, yeah. Got a better suggestion? Useddenim (talk) 00:31, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

How about   (dvBHF-Fq) and   (xdvBHF-Gq-)? That is, we are adding -G/-F (corresponding to -L/-R) and d- to what would be the correct name of the rotated corresponding through station (  (vBHFq) and the hypothetical BSicon exSTRq-.svgBSicon lvBHFq.svg (xvBHFq-) , respectively). Circeus (talk) 17:45, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Good idea. (Although, wouldn’t this be BSicon exvSTR-.svgBSicon lvBHF.svg (xvBHF-) ? hence BSicon ex-STRq.svgBSicon lvBHFq.svg (xvBHFq-) .) Useddenim (talk) 00:21, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
I aways assumed that we rotated icons 90° clockwise and in any case,   (vSTR-) and   (STRq-) (why do the rotated icons lack the v- prefix, anyway?? This is a mess waiting to happen) don't exactly leave a lot of room for interpretation... Hence BSicon exvSTR-.svgBSicon lvBHF.svg (xvBHF-)  → BSicon exSTRq-.svgBSicon lvBHFq.svg (xvBHFq-)  →   (xdvBHF-Gq-). Or am I overlooking something? Circeus (talk) 01:08, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
If anything,   (dvBHF-Fq) &   (xdBHF-Gq-) (no "v" for the second one), but I'm not sure about the suffixes... And, as I wrote before, there would be a confusion between   and BSicon exSTRq-.svgBSicon lBHF-.svgBSicon MASKl.svg  if we do not use a second BHF... So possibly (dxBHF-Gq-lBHF-G) or (dxBHFq-lBHF-R), but all this is really bizarre... Maybe better (exSTRq-+vBHFgq)?? YLSS (talk) 02:19, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Or we could just go straight for my old idea of using + for untranslatable name that simply connect "overlaying icons". BSicon exSTRq-.svgBSicon lvBHFq.svg (exSTRq-+lvBHFq) . This works at least as long as the corresponding icons don't change names. This results in   (exSTRq-+dvBHF-Gq). It's not elegant, but it's 100% unambiguous. And pray tell why the fuck, excuse my French, should rotated icons NOT use v- when they are nothing but rotated v- icons?? (This is the sort of shit that we spent days talking about fixing later on!) Circeus (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Hm, I was under impression that this was first proposed back in 2011. I provided some recent justification for this here. YLSS (talk) 04:55, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
↓ regular direction, lines listed 1|2; → q direction, lines listed BSicon num2e.svgBSicon BLq.svgBSicon num1a.svg . Useddenim (talk) 03:32, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
I have NO idea how that is supposed to translate into any mistakes in my names. Circeus (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Maybe because you were listing the elements bottom-to-top (i.e. right WRT direction of travel, then left, rotated)? And it was decided either vICONq if the icon has rotational symmetry of is unambiguous, or else ICONtop-ICONbottom (no v). Capisce? Useddenim (talk) 03:38, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

ConundrumEdit

moved to Talk:BSicon/Renaming/SPL#.../parallel railways/uw/double

Elevated KRWsEdit

I've been doing some partial track diagrams (for station infoboxes) and as always, I need some new elevated icons. What I'm looking for is either   (uhKRWgl+l) and   (uhKRWgr+r) or (what I assume would be)   (lhKRW+l-L),   (lhKRW+r-R),   (lhKRWr-L), and   (lhKRWl-R) for overlays. I attempted to create the overlay icons, but I wasn't successful.

I'm also still looking to get the curved elevated continuation pieces (set u) pointing to corner 1 and to corner 3.

As a side note, would anyone be able to explain why I get the generic railway line legend instead of the track legend for the stations I've been doing? It works when I switch "track" for others (canal, etc.) but not the one I need. See en:18th (CTA station) for the track/railway line issue and for the icons I'm looking to get in case I've gotten the syntax wrong for the overlay icons. Lost on Belmont (talk) 21:51, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I added the four corner variants of   (lhSTR-Rlg) to en:18th (CTA station), and it doesn’t look bad. I’d argue that, by making a smooth curve, it looks even better than the pointy meeting of the formations, as in BSicon hKRWgl.svgBSicon hKRWgr.svg. -- Tuválkin 03:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
WRT legend: use {{BS-map}} with inline=1 instead of {{Infobox rdt}}. YLSS (talk) 05:59, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
✓ Done, but if you’re not happy with the geometry, you may prefer to use the constructs shown below:
BSicon lhSTR-Lrg.svgBSicon lhSTR-Llf.svgBSicon uKRWgl+l.svgBSicon lhSTR-R.svg (lhSTR-RuKRWgl+llhSTR-LlflhSTR-Lrg)  BSicon uKRWgl+l.svgBSicon lhJCTfq.svg (lhJCTfquKRWgl+l) 
BSicon lhSTR-Rlg.svgBSicon lhSTR-Rrf.svgBSicon uKRWgr+r.svgBSicon lhSTR-L.svg (lhSTR-LuKRWgr+rlhSTR-RrflhSTR-Rlg)  BSicon uKRWgr+r.svgBSicon lhJCTgq.svg (lhJCTgquKRWgr+r)  Useddenim (talk) 18:13, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks to both of you. It's weird. Every time I need pieces of an elevated icon like these, I seem to test every other potentially applicable icon but forget (or assume I've already tried) pieces like   (lhSTR-Rrf). Lost on Belmont (talk) 23:25, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
I’ve also added   (lhJCTf) et al. to simplify the overlaying. Useddenim (talk) 01:24, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Why (JCT) and not e.g. (lhABZgl+l)? This doesn't look like the only series of icons that currently uses the JCT root,   (utvJCTgol) et al. Did you mean   (TEEl)? If yes, then there's the question of curved corners vs. pointy corners...Oops, missed   (lhTEEfq) & co. Or was it   (uJUNCld) ?? YLSS (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
(JCT) for generic junction, since it can be used with BSicon ABZgl+l.svgBSicon lhJCTfq.svg (lhJCTfqABZgl+l) , BSicon KRWgl+l.svgBSicon lhJCTfq.svg (lhJCTfqKRWgl+l) , BSicon ugJUNCld.svgBSicon lhJCTfq.svg (lhJCTfqugJUNCld) , etc. Useddenim (talk) 03:40, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
That’s what I thought, yes. Besides, seems that things like   (ABZlg) or   (KRWg+r) would be better served with a combo of round and square formation edges:
-- Tuválkin 04:48, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. And, a lo-o-o-ong time ago I started to change the offside corners of   (uhABZq+r) etc. from round to square. Useddenim (talk) 11:37, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Huh, I always wondered why nobody created these overlays... And apparently I was too lazy to upload them myself. Well, at last! ;) YLSS (talk) 21:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
OK, let it be (JCT). But why such suffixes? I supposed we settled at least on   (TEEa), so why   (lhTEEf) &   (lhJCTf) ?? And, as I wrote in that same discussion, in case of TEEs it may indeed be preferable to have "l" & "r" (or not?..). YLSS (talk) 21:36, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
Oh, I dunno… it may have something to do with your suffix changing, which I seem to lose track of. I don’t have any ojections one way or the other, but if you want (lhTEEl) and (lhTEEr), then it should also be   (lhTEEf) and   (lhTEEg) for consistency, not (lhTEEa) and (lhTEEe). Useddenim (talk) 23:26, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

JPGEdit

OMG, real JPGs, not even PNGs! File:BSicon RP2uRP4.no2edit.JPG & File:BSicon RP2wnRP2no2edit.JPG. Tuválkin, do you need them?.. YLSS (talk) 15:26, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

(Ew…) No, I don’t — these should be nuked on sight, I think. -- Tuválkin 11:21, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

uCONT iconsEdit

STR + ENDEe-R
BSicon STR.svg
ENDEe-L + STR
BSicon ENDEe-L.svg
{{BS2|STR|O1=ENDEe-R|ENDEe-L|O2=STR}}}
dSTR dENDEe dSTR
{{BS3|dSTR|dENDEe|dENDEe|}}}
d + STR
BSicon d.svg
d + ENDEe
BSicon d.svg
STR
{{BS3|d|O1=STR|d|O2=ENDEe|STR|}}}

Looking to get   (uhCONT+g),   (uhCONT+f), and   (uCONT+fq). I also need (what I assume would be)   (uCONTg-R),   (uCONTg-L),   (uCONTf-R), and   (uCONTf-L) (which should be the corresponding CONT pieces for this   (uSTR-R) type.) Lost on Belmont (talk) 12:41, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Here you are:   (uhCONT+g),   (uhCONT+f),   (uhCONT+fq). WRT halved icons, it's actually simpler to either use half-width icons, or to use "shifted" overlaying, see the example. YLSS (talk) 15:24, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Huh, I also realised that your March request was left unanswered, so, if you still need them:   (uhCONT1+f) &   (uhCONT2+g). (Had to calculate sin 15° & cos 18° for these. Did you know that ((393 − 250) / (1 − 1 / 2) − 130) × (1 / 2 − 1) + 120 gives 15.1, while on the other hand ((393 − 250) / (1 − 1 / 2) + 130) / 2 + 393 − (393 − 250) / (1 − 1 / 2) / 2 gives 484.9 = 500 − 15.1 ? I didn't!) YLSS (talk) 16:13, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
BTW, those The Loop templates of yours are really impressive! And a good test ground for all elevated formations ;) I would also suggest using elevated k-curves in those places where there are no junctions, like in {{AirTrain (SFO)}}. YLSS (talk) 17:02, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks! Although in all honesty, I have no clue (even after looking at your example) of how to get the shifted overlay I want. An example is en:Racine (CTA Blue Line station). (I am trying to make a better version of what epicgenius did with CSS but with BS icons.)
Thanks for   (uhCONT1+f) &   (uhCONT2+g)! But shouldn't they be in elevated/uw/continuation instead of just "elevated/continuation"?
As for the Loop templates, I have already begun to switch some of the curves to k-curves per your suggestion. (I may leave the former Tower 8 area—lower left corner—as uws as a subtle suggestion of the junction once there.) If you have any suggestions for improving the 3/4 grand junction in the upper left corner in the more contemporary templates, I'd greatly appreciate it. As it is, it's functional, but clunky. Lost on Belmont (talk) 02:03, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
At the top of en:Racine (CTA Blue Line station), the middle track has no ending, what do you need there? -- Tuválkin 03:54, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Is this what you wanted with Racine? I didn't understand want you meant, so if I guessed wrong, feel free to revert. Also, I was unable to find a place for a pointer; maybe the unused lines could terminate one row sooner? WRT overlaying: there's a couple of examples at my talk page, maybe you'll find them helpful... YLSS (talk) 14:25, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
The middle track at the top of Racine, as Tuvalkin noted, is the place where I wanted an arrow, but that line (which I had intended to replace) is made of two "side" pieces. This is why I wanted the half piece arrows, or, to overlay an arrow in the middle. Instead of cluttering this page with ideas on how to correct this, I'll go to YLSS's talk page. Thanks everyone. Lost on Belmont (talk) 22:07, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

All elevated with cornersEdit

I have recently created a set of icons I have long coveted: elevated straight pieces with elevated corners! (I am lazy and loathe multiple overlays for simple concepts.) This is the initial result:   (uxhSTR+hc1)   (uxhSTR+hc2)   (uxhSTR+hc3)   (uxhSTR+hc4). I'm holding off in creating the remaining pieces until I get at least the first of two things resolved.

1) Should the naming structure have the "h" for the corner pieces come at the beginning or the end? For instance, hSTR+hc1 or hSTR+c1h. Lost on Belmont (talk) 03:12, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

h following a number is a special construct that indicates half (width) stroke at corner number #, as in   (STR3h+1h) or   (STR2h+r) (vs.   (STR3+1) and   (STR2+r)). Useddenim (talk) 03:48, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
You know... I think we can live without an additional "h" in this case, i. e.   (uxhSTR+c1). If anyone liked to have an elevated track + non-elevated corner in a single icon (let's hope no one ever will), that one could be called (uhSTR+STRc1) (or (uSTR+hSTRc1). YLSS (talk) 09:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
✓Agree. Useddenim (talk) 11:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
If I have learned one thing from my life, it is that hoping that something won't happen is almost always a precursor to that very thing happening. (And that always seems to be the case with BSicons.) I would rather assume that it will happen (maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but some day) and then prepare for that instance (even if it never happens). Given that, your proposed (uhSTR+STRc1) scheme wouldn't be consistent with the icons I just created or with their non-elevated counterparts. That leads me to two possibilities: either we keep the icons as they are now (STR+c1 and hSTR+hc1) with other variants being named hSTR+c1 and STR+hc1 or we rename the existing icons now including the STR for the corner piece   (STR+STRc1). Lost on Belmont (talk) 12:02, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
That's the intention: these elevated-here-but-not-here icons won't be consistent with either   (uSTR+c1) or   (uhSTR+c1), and it's not necessary. But feel free to choose the name you want, as the inventor of the series. (Move any icons you think is better.) YLSS (talk) 18:23, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

2) If someone could supply me the correct path placement numbers for useddenim's new formation scheme (in order to save creating new versions for each). The straight pieces are an easy one, but I'm no .svg wizard and I still have no idea what the numbers specifically convey. Lost on Belmont (talk) 03:12, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

50px lines @ 125 & 375. Useddenim (talk) 03:48, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Yup, like in this one:   (uhSTR+c1). YLSS (talk) 09:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
Changing the values of "120" to "125" and "380" to "375" will also take care of the corner section(s)? Lost on Belmont (talk) 12:02, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
See also Talk:BSicon/Icon geometry and SVG code neatness/Formations#Diagonal + curve for diagonals. YLSS (talk) 18:23, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
The problem with that is that while the values are specified, I have no idea how to use them in this set of icons. I don't fully understand the way .svg files are coded (obviously I can hack my way through some of it) but I have a lot of other projects I need to work on and I don't have the time to learn the ins and outs of coding .svgs. Lost on Belmont (talk) 15:15, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
It’s just a lot of math: geometry & trigonometry. Useddenim (talk) 03:59, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Lost on Belmont, you can start (and finish) here. -- Tuválkin 10:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
I risk saying some things that you already know, but the most common operations you need are:
  • Flipping the image horizontally: just "reverse" all x-coordinates, i. e. subtract them from 500 (for full-width icons) or 250 (for half-width) etc., e. g. 125 → 375, or -35.4 → 535.4
  • Flipping the image vertically: reverse all y-coordinates
  • Flipping the image along the diagonal from the top left corner (#4 in the BSworld) to the bottom right (#2): swap x-coordinates with y-coordinates (and replace H operators with V operators, and vice versa; they are followed by x- & y-coordinates, respectively)
  • Transpose the image by some amount horizontally, vertically or diagonally: just add or subtract the needed amount from respective coordinates. For example, to calculate that elevated sidings in corner: (the middle of) a siding is 125px from (the middle of) a line, so if the line is at the 1st corner (500, 0), the siding is 125px from it diagonally, or 125 / 2 ≈ 88.4px from it along the x-axis, and as much along the y-axis, i. e. M 411.6, 88.4. That's the midpoint; to know where to draw the line from and where to, just add enough to get outside the borders of the icon, e. g. 200px: then you get M 211.6, -111.6 L 611.6, 288.4.
  • For circular arcs, the first two values are not coordinates but the radii (should be equal for circles), and should not be touched in the above cases. However, the fifth value — usually either "0" or "1" — should be reversed for each "flipping".
That's pretty much everything you need for deriving an icon from an existent one. Creating some new geometrical shape would require some more serious calculations, although, as Useddenim said, with geometry & trigonometry you can achieve pretty much everything. YLSS (talk) 17:21, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, this is exactly what I needed! Lost on Belmont (talk) 02:15, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Lost on belmont: Tuválkin provided a link above (at 10:42, 21 July 2014); that's quite a large collection of docs. The ones that I find most useful include:
I typically take an existing image file that's close to what I need, and add or remove elements as needed, and then adjust coordinates, colours etc. --Redrose64 (talk; at English Wikipedia) 18:00, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

(Just to think of it... Just a couple of months ago things like   (STR+c1) were pretty transcendent, unknown & unused. And now we deal with their "xh" versions. Things change... YLSS (talk) 09:36, 17 July 2014 (UTC))

Oh yes, means we’re finally on the right track! -- Tuválkin 10:42, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Icon for waterfallEdit

Hi, we are at least two users in Sweden who miss an icon for waterfall in a river. I have used the icon WASSER in the map at https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_IX:s_kanal The other user has used WWEIRg in https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollh%C3%A4tte_kanal Neither of us is happy with these icons. Best, Peterappelros (talk) 20:57, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

And what's wrong with   (WWEIRg)? For me, it pretty much suggests a waterfall. A weir is a small waterfall, after all. Also, there is   (uWEIRe), but it suggests more of some artificial construction. YLSS (talk) 22:40, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
WWEIRg (especially the black elements) suggests some form of man-made dam. It has also similarities with the lock icon. I rather prefer to use the WASSER icon, which suggests some "wildness". But I would prefer something still better. Peterappelros (talk) 05:58, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
Does this meet your needs:   (WFALLf)? (Although, unfortunately, the masking went slightly awry.)Fixed. Useddenim (talk) 22:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC) Useddenim (talk) 04:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, it does, thank you very much! You can see it in use here: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mall:Kanalkarta_Karl_IX:s_kanal
I think it would be fine if it were available in 90, 180 and 270 degrees as well.Peterappelros (talk) 12:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Coming right up. Useddenim (talk) 22:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Tunnel to elevatedEdit

Okay, looking to get an icon depicting a tunnel transitioning to elevated to corner 3, set u. Basically this is an elevated version of   (utSTR3e).

  (uhTNL3e). Useddenim (talk) 02:35, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Most excellent. Thanks! Lost on Belmont (talk) 13:50, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
Just found this: You made great efforts to change "TUNNELa" to "tSTRa" and so on but now you introduce a new icon root "TNL"? This is inconsequent! Even more, half of the icon the track is in tunnel, the other half elevated, maybe someone demands to get back to the old "-ELEV" suffix? I'd say we have to think about this ... a×pdeHello! 17:27, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

ACC across even-number multiple linesEdit

Also, thanks to Useddenim, we now have   (lINTACC-M) and   (lINTACC-Mq). Both of these icons work great for instances of odd numbered lines. For even numbers, we may have a problem. I attempted to use the horizontal icon as an overlay of the half-width blank cell. It positioned correctly, but half of the icon was covered over by the piece on the right. Is there a way around this or do we need two icons that are split in half? The same thing for verticals. Is there a way to branch between rows like with columns? Lost on Belmont (talk) 22:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

"Is there a way around this": at en.wp, no. In other Wikipedias, an overlaid icon would also cover the base icon in the cell to the right (but not its overlays), which I find very handy. At en.wp, the syntax of BS-overlap was changed some time ago so that all icons are actually overlaid on top of an empty cell, and this trick doesn't work. So you need either something like   (lACCr), or some   (ldINTACC-M) placed between   (dINT-L) &   (dINT-R), or maybe something else (better provide a link to the diagram in question). "Is there a way to branch between rows like with columns?": only at no.wp. I plan to implement the same thing in {{Routemap}}, but as yet, no. YLSS (talk) 06:07, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
I must begin by objecting to ‎your comment, Tuvalkin, this is not a chat channel, pls. use heading for easy/future reference and splitting the section. I clearly labeled the previous section Tunnel to elevated and INTACC overlay to encompass both parts of my request.   (lINTACC-M) and   (lINTACC-Mq) are both INTACC overlays as would be the INT versions of   (lACC-R) et al. if it was determined that it needed to be created for this instance. Lost on Belmont (talk) 14:24, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
While I erred for not noticing that the heading you chose did reflect the content, it is still true that two unrelated subjects should not share a thread, even if correctly labelled. It is enough for your momentary interest, but doesnt allow for, say, future splitting or simple referencing according to subject. No offense intended, please do not take any. -- Tuválkin 22:57, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
That said, "[i]n other Wikipedias, an overlaid icon would also cover the base icon in the cell to the right (but not its overlays)" was exactly what I was expecting to find at en.wp. Alas. The template in question is one of my Loop templates. I was stating with the current one and would fix the others as applicable. Washington/Wells and Library are the two stations in question. Washington/Wells should be like an ACC version of Adams/Wabash while Library should be like a two line version of Clark/Lake. Lost on Belmont (talk) 14:24, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
(Which reminds me of the bizarre   (HFNt) &   (HFNb)... YLSS (talk) 17:25, 6 August 2014 (UTC))
  (lINTACC-L) &   (lINTACC-R). Useddenim (talk) 02:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Can I get the "Lq" and "Rq" versions as well? Lost on Belmont (talk) 12:10, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
You mean   (lINTACC-Rq) &   (lINTACC-Lq)? I don’t see why not. Useddenim (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Great! Thanks. Lost on Belmont (talk) 00:54, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

File:BSicon BOOT.svgEdit

JaJaWa (talk · contribs) uploaded a noticeably different version of this file, apparently without discussion. Any thoughts? AlgaeGraphix (talk) 13:42, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Regardless of any merits of the changed design over the original one, such change cannot be accepeted without discussion. A detailed explanation should be the first stop for that. This upload should be reverted ASAP. -- Tuválkin 21:57, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Done. Lost on Belmont (talk) 01:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

FYI: At my request JaJaWa's version was separated to   (FERRY). Also, I uploaded File:Ferry symbol.svg to be used via {{rint}} and similar. YLSS (talk) 10:16, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Icon request: BSicon ebvWSL-BS2lr.svg in light rail blueEdit

uCONTg exARCH
uexSTRl+uSHI2l
uexKBHFr + uBS2c3
BSicon uexKBHFr.svg
d uSPLa d
d uvINT d
d
uvSTR + lvENDEf-
BSicon uvSTR.svg
d
udBS2c2 + uexdCONTgq
BSicon udBS2c2.svg
uexSTRr+uSHI2r
d ldENDEg exARCH

Hello,
I search this   (ebvWSL-BS2lr) in blue for light rail, but I couldn't find it. I need it for this Wikipedia page: de:Benutzer:U-Bahnfreund/Stammstrecke 3 (Stadtbahn Dortmund). Could anyone upload this?
Thank you, --U-Bahnfreund (talk) 14:03, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

You can use BSicon uexSTRlf.svgBSicon uBS2l.svg BSicon uexSTRrf.svgBSicon uBS2r.svg  instead, right? -- Tuválkin 17:30, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't know... This is with overlay, right? I once tried this (Overlay) in the German wikipedia, but failed. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or it doesn't work on German wikipedia. --U-Bahnfreund (talk) 18:20, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Ah, yes, w:de doesnt do overlay, sadly so. You can use these two side-by-side:
  •   (uBS2l+uexSTRlf)
  •   (uBS2r+uexSTRrf)
I think that splitting in two halves things like   (ebvWSL-BS2lr) is a good idea, as each half is more productive (see example diagram →) than the combo. -- Tuválkin 19:10, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, I'll use these. --U-Bahnfreund (talk) 19:24, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Hm, since we're going into the unorthodox area here, let's use modern naming patterns. Plus, I think it's better to spell out the "ex" element first and then non-"ex", as that's how they are actually drawn. So,   (uexSTRl+uSHI2l) &   (uexSTRr+uSHI2r). But I totally agree that such combined icons are more useful than the double "b" ones. YLSS (talk) 20:04, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
Agreed about the renamings, of course, and thanks! (Not sure about the stacking order, but we’ll sort that out some other day,) -- Tuválkin 20:13, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

exTUNNELEdit

split from Talk:BSicon/Obsolete and deletions#e/xTUNNEL

I uploaded   (exlTUNNEL) to indicate a former tunnel. I used a dashed line as we don't have an “ex” colour for formations. Useddenim (talk) 22:55, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

That raises the question of the semantics of our two special colors —   formation   and   black  , and why one has an   ex-color  , and the other does not. This should be discussed someday, surely, but so far I'm unconvinced with dotted formations, though. -- Tuválkin 11:56, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
I think these dashed formations should go below the track: BSicon exlTUNNEL.svgBSicon STR.svg . That was actually my first idea, to overlap BSicon TUNNEL1.svgBSicon STR.svg (STRTUNNEL1)  (but then I recalled that de.wp lacks overlaying), but with the portals "broken" that looks even better. But I can't say that I like the name. Also: 50px lines now, and narrower portal; I tested things at   (tLSTRa). YLSS (talk) 12:36, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
After thinking long about this, let me vote against these dotted portals — sorry, guys! I think the semantics "location of a former tunnel entrance" is best conveyed with BSicon TUNNEL1.svgBSicon STR.svg (STRTUNNEL1) , like YLSS thought at 1st — it looks better at small sizes (such as 20px) and cannot be confused with established meanings of dotting (lücke/interruption  , which it is not — and that’s one bad choice of a filename prefix, and lines in tunnel  , very confusing). -- Tuválkin 23:49, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
Despite the semantics (and the fact I designed it), I still think the intent of BSicon exlTUNNEL.svgBSicon STR.svg (STRexlTUNNEL)  is clearer than BSicon TUNNEL1.svgBSicon STR.svg (STRTUNNEL1)  at 20px (and also BSicon exlTUNNEL.svgBSicon exSTR.svg  vs. BSicon TUNNEL1.svgBSicon exSTR.svg ). Useddenim (talk) 19:04, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

Globally wanted filesEdit

On commons there's a list of files that have been embedded the highest number of times across all wikis despite not existing.

It contains 1410 files starting with "BSIcon".

The most popular has been embedded 72 times, the least popular 11 times.

See https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:GloballyWantedFiles&limit=5000

-Arb. (talk) 14:39, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

So... ? You have an idea how to set that list to skip BSicons? YLSS (talk) 16:40, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
Here’s those 1410 (non-)files in a list: