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Talk:BSicon/New icons and icon requests/Archive 2

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File:BSicon xBHF.svg

Moved from en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/stations.

Could someone please explain, how this could work, a station in use on a track that's out of use?!?!? That's simply impossible!! axpdeHello! 15:06, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Maybe it's impossible (a railway station which never had tracks was Hull Corporation Pier), a long-term bus replacement service might be running, however I think {{BS4||exSTR|||O2=HST legende|}} would show what was wanted without the clutter of too many nonce-use specials.--SilasW (talk) 17:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
The article uses this icon (en:Exe Valley Railway, en:Devon Railway Centre) represent an abandoned station that has been revitalised as a railway museum. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 22:43, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
So the station is not in use! The icon is wrong! axpdeHello! 19:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Icon request

Moved from en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/stations.

exSTR + lBHF
BSicon exSTR.svg
BSicon .svg
{{BS|exSTR|O1=BHF legende}}
exKBHFe + lBHF
BSicon exKBHFe.svg
BSicon .svg
{{BS|exKBHFe|O1=BHF legende}}
exSTRq + lBHF
BSicon exSTRq.svg
BSicon .svg
{{BS|exSTRq|O1=BHF legende}}
uexSTR + ulBHF
BSicon uexSTR.svg
BSicon .svg
{{BS|uexSTR|O1=uBHF legende}}
uexSTRq + ulBHF
BSicon uexSTRq.svg
BSicon .svg
{{BS|uexSTRq|O1=uBHF legende}}

Would someone be able to produce the following? A set of station/halt icons showing a station in red on top of a pink disused line, both vertical and horizontal?

There are some occasions when railway stations are being restored and have track running through them that terminates at the station boundaries. These stations are being used by shunters, and act as bridgeheads for future line re-construction. Example: en:Shillingstone railway station. Rather than using an overlay or a BHF to represent this, a set of dedicated icons would be useful. David Bailey (talk) 11:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above of BSicon xBHF.svg xBHF is exactly the icon you're asking for. But Axp doesn't quite acknowledge its usage. Anyway you can use the overlap parameter of BS# row template to substitute for the missing icons. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 12:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. xBHF is good, but that's only one icon. Overlap doesn't always work in older browsers. A full set of icons would be a nice addition... but as mentioned above, we'd probably need a set of guidelines for its usage. David Bailey (talk) 13:11, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

#Sigh#

Once again: It's impossible to have an operating station if the track isn't operational. Please note, the red dot represents operational railroad tracks with train rollings on them, and not just the building with a service counter area!

Thus those icons are pure nonsense! And people get confused if you use those icons! axpdeHello! 21:47, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually I found a use for one. A station which has been turned in to a museum, and has a miniature ride-on railway. Seemed pointless to have a whole line red, but the station seemed reasonable. -mattbuck (Talk) 22:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't think making these set of xBHF icons would cause too much problem/harm especially to the German project. Alternatively, you may also refer to en:East Rail Line solution BSicon exKBHFa.svgBSicon MBAHN.svg ex(K)BHF | MBAHN , but I realize that it would arise the problem because in Britain MBAHN icon is largely ambiguous between intercity railway/heritage railway/railway museum. (While in other regions the BSicon LDER.svg LDER can simply defeat the ambiguity.) If the restored station isn't open to civilian, I would suggest applying the BSicon lDST.svg DST, but in David's case it still requires an exSTR to accomplish the intended icon, e.g. xDST. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 04:41, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Request for additional icons

Moved from en:Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/stations.

BSicon hKBHFa.svgBSicon exhKBHFa.svg
BSicon hKBHFr.svg → ???

That is just an example. I could not complete the diagram because of these missing icons. :( --Coolguyche17 (talk) 18:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

✓ Done - BSicon exhKBHFr.svg. -mattbuck (Talk) 18:32, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Triple decker crossover

CONT2
STRc3 + CONTg
BSicon STRc3.svg
BSicon .svg
STRrg + STRc1
BSicon STRrg.svg
KRZu + KRZq2+4o
BSicon KRZu.svg
STRc3 + CONTfq
BSicon STRc3.svg
KRZu + KRZq2+4o
ABZg2 + STRlf
BSicon ABZg2.svg
STR3+4
STRc12 + STRlf
BSicon STRc12.svg
KRZq2+4o + KRZq3+1o
BSicon KRZq2+4o.svg
STRc34 + CONTfq
BSicon STRc34.svg
KRZq2+4o + KRZq3+1o
STR2+1
STRc1234 + ENDEa
BSicon STRc1234.svg
STR3+4 + vSTR+4-
BSicon STR3+4.svg
STRc12
SBRÜCKE + KRXo
BSicon SBRÜCKE.svg
STRc34 + vSTR-
BSicon STRc34.svg
SBRÜCKE + ÜWolr+url
STRc14 + STR
BSicon STRc14.svg
STR+4 + SHI1+r
BSicon STR+4.svg
ÜWt2 over any corner2 45° icon
STRrg KRZo
CONTfq + lENDEg
BSicon CONTfq.svg
KRZo
STRlf STRrf
ÜWt4 over any corner4 45° icon

-- Tuválkin 11:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

When working on en:Template:Cross Country Route, I came across a problematic junction in Chesterfield, Derbyshire. As can be seen here, what we have is a triple deck crossover:

  • A line from top left to bottom right
  • A line from top to bottom passing over this
  • A line from left to right passing over this

I got around the problem by using a tunnel icon, but that's a bit disingenuous as it's just a bridge, not a tunnel. Could someone create such an icon? Note that the specific one I need has only the top to bottom line active, the others disused. -mattbuck (Talk) 02:13, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

An interesting situation (I come across something like it in the past, here, for this, but two of the passes carry roads). As I see it, there’s no room left on   (eKRZu) for anything diagonal except for the smallest possible bridge markers — and two really tiny bits of track, unavoidable due to the concave nature of said markers. Have you tried using overlaying of existing icons?
  • What about overlaying   (KRZq2+4o) and   (KRZq3+1o)?
  • or   (KRZo) and   (SBRÜCKE)?
-- Tuválkin 11:14, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Or keeping it away on the icon cells neighbouring diagonally the   (KRZo)? I put these 3 examples at the right. -- Tuválkin 11:38, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Well,   (KRZq2+4o) over   (KRZq3+1o) (and other such combinations) seems to be the best looking approach. A variant of it is   (KRZq2+4o) over   (KRZu), which I added to the examples. -- Tuválkin 11:59, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

tLUECKEq

moved from User talk:Useddenim

Hello Useddenim,

I don't know if you're still very active with the rail icons, but I was wondering if you could please make an icon that should correspond to tLUECKEq (so tLUECKE 90º rotated). My computer does not allow me to edit .svg files... Netraam (talk) 21:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

He is, he could (but I was faster!   (tLUECKEq) ;-), and it does. (Use a text editor to edit SVGs and a browser to keep checking the changes you're making.) -- Tuválkin 01:38, 9 December 2011 (UTC)
Good stuff. Cheers! Netraam (talk) 08:16, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

New station icons

Hi, i have just made 3 new icons for stations:   (xKBHF-Re),   (KBHF-Mxa) and   (xKBHF-Me). Could anybody check if i have named they properly? Therud (talk) 21:35, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Uploaded
as
Renamed Compare with
  (xKBHF-Re)   (KBHFxe-R)   (KBHFxe)
  (KBHF-Mxa)   (xKBHFa-M)   (exKBHFa) and   (xBHF)
  (xKBHF-Me)   (KBHFxe-M)   (KBHFxe)

You might also find it easier to use the {{BSicon quote}} (abbreviated {{bsq}} ) template . Useddenim (talk) 04:12, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks:) Therud (talk) 20:16, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Why were those renamed? Isn't -R/L/M an integral part of the root? Circeus (talk) 02:35, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Water colors

moved to Talk:BSicon/Colors#Water colors

New Split level icons

This one has color also so it can be useful   (umTINT(029B52))   (ugTINT) -- 04:57, 21 February 2013‎ 京市

What color is that for? It looks way too close to the green used by canal icons like   (ugSTRq). Circeus (talk) 08:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
We dont need new colors, it is messy as it is. -- Tuválkin 11:53, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
I’ll recolor it in "ug" color. I’m not sure how a TINT is used for the canals, but these two colors, u and ug, are indeed used for canal diagrams, so this contribution is not as whimsical as others from the same user. Moreover, he managed to create proper SVGs, and in clean code, not burdened with the usual Corel/Sodipodi/Inkscape deadweight, so congrats to User:京市 and a tip: Focus on the standard blue and red icons — browsing through en:Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms will give clues on which icons are needed the most. -- Tuválkin 12:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
There were already 21 icons in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set 029B52 Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set g, not 京市’s fault. Their merging with the "ug" icons is being discussed. -- Tuválkin 12:07, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

(Updated links. -- Tuválkin 18:09, 20 May 2013 (UTC))

Naming request.

I would like some help with namning of four new icons. The icons below but where the light colored lines is replaced with the standard green line.

  (ABZxl+l)
  (ABZr+xr)
  (ueABZl+l)
  (uxABZr+r)

--Civilspanaren (talk) 15:29, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

There are two “standard” greens at the moment,     and    ; I’ll assume you mean the former, but both work the same way, nameswise. Making use of a still experimental naming convention (discussion here), the trick for names using any prefix color is to check how are named icons in the regular "m" set — that is mixed normalred+normalblue, and then add "f" after that "m", yielding "mf", which means that f-green replaces u-blue. If the mixed icon you use as model is prefixed "um" (meaning that u-blue is priority), then swtich the "u" for "f", yielding "fm". To replace normalred with f-green, keeping the u-blue, keep the "u" prefix, using "uf" for priority u-blue and "fu" for priority f-blue. (See Category:Icons for railway descriptions/set green/mixed.) Thus, I suggest the following:
BSicon fSTRlf.svgBSicon STRrg.svg  →   (mfABZfg)
BSicon fSTRlg.svgBSicon STRrf.svg  →   (mfABZgf)
BSicon fSTRlf.svgBSicon uSTRrg.svg  →   (ufABZfg)
BSicon fSTRlg.svgBSicon uSTRrf.svg  →   (ufABZgf)
Or you could use overlaid icons in your diagram — that’s the usual choice for off combos, simpler than creating (and naming) new icons. -- Tuválkin 16:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Is there any template that is used inside existing BS-templates? I mean ex {{BS2|{{BS?|icon1|icon2}}|{{BS?|icon3|icon4}}||Station|Note|Note}}? --Civilspanaren (talk) 07:29, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Yes for en, de, here on commons and some other wikis, but not on sv as I checked just now; the syntax for overlaying is at en:WP:RDT#BSn row templates. For sv, I don't see the option to do that so far, as that wiki is apparently missing en:Template:Superimpose2 currently. Peterwhy (talk) 14:06, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Not universally for de, my fault. Peterwhy (talk) 14:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Yep, :de:w: has no overlay, they say internet exploiter 6 doesn't like it or so ... :*} a×pdeHello! 16:04, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
Is it a wikimedia version obstetrical or is just the temples that missing in the SvWP? --Civilspanaren (talk) 11:29, 25 March 2013 (UTC) Solved it. --Civilspanaren (talk) 05:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
After looking at their use in sv:Mall:Linjekarta Stockholms tunnelbana, might you possibly prefer KRW icons (BSicon uKRW+l.svgBSicon KRWl.svg ) which cross, rather than ABZ which merge (BSicon uSTRlf.svgBSicon STRrg.svg )? Useddenim (talk) 01:30, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

New request

Would like some help to name an icon of   (BHFABZld) but with the upper right curve as not in use/under construction, as   (ABZgxl+l). To add a little mor twist to it, I'll like to have it in for the blue set (u). --Civilspanaren (talk) 22:15, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

✓ Done:   (uBHFABZgxl+l). (Also   (uBHFABZgl+l) for good measure.) Useddenim (talk) 00:28, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
Thx! Remade it to do the triangle more visible. Hope you don't mind. --Civilspanaren (talk) 18:51, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

DST interchange start

I made 2 new icons;   (DSTal) and   (DSTar)

Could someone rename them correctly or delete them if they are redundant? I didn't see these in the gallery.

Deonyi (talk) 08:53, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

All icons that are standard variations of already existent icons are welcome, so thanks for your upload! I renamed them to   (KDST-La) &   (KDST-Ra) in line with   (KBHF-La) (  (DSTl) should be renamed to   (DST-L) someday ✓ Done). Just one point: please do not forget adding categories when uploading icons. Recently I've been stumbling upon quite relevant icons in most unexpected places, like Category:Green discs or Category:Geography of North Yorkshire. Always such a surprise... YLSS (talk) 10:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Help turning an icon

Do to mine lack of programs on my new computer with no installation rights I'd like som help turning   (uevSTRe) upside down. But, still with the lightblue color on the left side. --Civilspanaren (talk) 20:30, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Usually I'd say: "Just open that file in a text editor and flip the y coordinates" (svgs are text based vector graphics, very easy to code manually once you have understood the priciples ...), but this special file badly needs a diet :( a×pdeHello! 21:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
✓ Done &   (uevSTRa) ✓ Done. Useddenim (talk) 00:23, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Half-width curves

dSTR2h+r BS2r
udSHI1+l + dBS2c1
BSicon udSHI1+l.svg
udSHI1+r + dSTRl+4h
BSicon udSHI1+r.svg
d
dSHI1c1 udSHI1+r d
Ok!
udBS2c1 dSHI1+r d
Too small!
udBS2c1 BS2+r
Ok!
udBS2c1 STRl+4h
Nearly ok ...
Now Ok!
udBS2c1 dSTRl+4h dSTRr+1h
Now Ok!

Axpde has just uploaded four new icons:   (dSTRr+1),   (dSTR2+r),   (dSTR3+l),   (dSTRl+4) (the first two, actually, over other icons with different topology, as discussed here; 20px thumbnail still shows that). These are certainly useful and handy, no question on that (he already introduced them at e.g. de:Rheintalbahn). However, I would favour that full-width and half-width icons with similar names would show similar topology. If   (STR2+r) heads into the corner at 45°, then   (dSTR2+r) should do the same. Axpde's icons, on the other hand, have corners similar to   (BS2l), that is from the branching/shift family, although not precisely compatible with, say,   (BS2c3). Grafically, however, they are similar to   (STRlg). Personally, I'd restore the deleted icons (however faulty) and choose some other name for these. But which one? Maybe   (dBS2C+r), following   (BS2C+r)? YLSS (talk) 20:25, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

  (dSTRr+1) and   (dSTR2+r) were used before, right, but both of them showed different approches to this topic. In   (dSTRr+1) the track runs too steeply, in   (dSTR2+r) too shallowly!
The problem with "full-width and half-width icons with similar names would show similar topology" is that sometimes the half-width icon is too small to show the same.   (STR2+r) heads at 45°, but if you try to show the same on only half the way, angles can't be the same!
That's why I choosed the name for something, that won't exist on full size icons, half parts of   (STR+r) and alike, which can easily be paired with   (BS2r) and alike: BSicon dSTR2h+r.svgBSicon BS2r.svg - <edit>nearly</edit> perfect match, isn't it? a×pdeHello! 20:46, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I agree that they match quite well (although, I guess, at nl.wp or with Tuválkin's zoom some discrepancy might show up) and I wonder why nobody uploaded anything like that before, but still, let's keep them separate from ÜW-type curves / STRn. Just to avoid confusion. We have a countably infinite set of other names, right? What about   (dBS2C+r)? YLSS (talk) 21:33, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
These new halves of   (STRrg) are not a perfect match with BS2 icons (but only barely noticeable even at 80px, see example ↗) but they are a perfect match with each other (BSicon dSTR2h+r.svgBSicon dSTR3h+l.svg) and with half straights like   (STR-L) — that’s why when the modified geometry of   (dSTR2+r) showed up in my watchlist I thought that this is a great idea. However I also agree with YLSS that naming these with quadrant numbers 1234 is a mistake — these always mean lines reaching a corner at 45° (except for legende stations, and maybe that should be changed), and changing that by adding a new meaning envolving lines at corners/quadrants is a mistake, especially when the geometry of these new icons matches something that exists and has a name (BS2 — a bad name, but still). I fully agree with YLSS’s take on the naming for these. -- Tuválkin 09:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Symbol keep vote.svg Agree: The icons are OK, the names not so much. I think YLSS’ suggestion is on the right track. (Sorry for the pun.) Useddenim (talk) 12:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Obviously I'm fully convinced that the layout of these icons is ok. And the name is a compromise since there won't be full-size versions of these as well as no half-size versions of "ÜW"-tracks. But I don't like the idea to introduce a "capital-C-suffix" as in   (BS2C+r), a very badly named icon, it is no "BS2" at all! Better name for this ..?
And yes, the more I think about it the less I like "BS2" but still there's no sensible name for this :( a×pdeHello! 13:25, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

┌────────────────┘
Bringing back the issue raised at Talk:BSicon/Renaming/SPL, we can make these the first ones to employ the SHI root. Just since they are compatible with the whole BS2/SPL/vSTRr business. (I also don't like the "C" suffix.) YLSS (talk) 14:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm ... my 1st impression was SHIt ... ;-) a×pdeHello! 17:25, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
Ahh… no. That was EN:SHIƒt/DE:verScHIeben. (For anyone who doesn't want to bother (re)reading the entire thread.) Useddenim (talk) 18:32, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
If the naming "SHI" is a problem, then maybe we could use a name that addresses what’s specific about these icons, which is not the shifting (apart from BS2s, also vÜWBs, vÜSTs, and many KRWs and STRs show shifts too, as discussed), which is that the line(s) enter the icon space from any of the corners, oriented vertically, and aligned to the vertical edges of the icons, which cuts the line width in half — therefore matching half icons and staggered regular icons in other rows (which was their original role — diagram column shifts). "Half" and "halb" suggest HAL, maybe? -- Tuválkin 20:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Could you please elaborate: are you suggesting HAL only for these icons (and BS2C), or for current BS2 as well, or for all branching/shift family? YLSS (talk) 12:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
I thought HAL as a replacement of all kinds of BS2, including these we’re talking about in this section, any icon where the line enters an icon cut in half; exception to things like   (STR-L), as those are stable and would not be named easily/simply with a different root ID. -- Tuválkin 14:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Also, I added the preexisting   (exBS2Cc1) new   (udSHIc1(!)) to the table above, and uploaded these new icons (because I needed them for a diagram):   (uSHIc1(!))   (uSHIc2(!))   (uSHIc3(!))   (uSHIc4(!))   (uSHIflr(!))   (uSHIglr(!)). (These names use "SHI", not "HAL", and an "(!)" to mark them clearly as experimental.) -- Tuválkin 20:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Also   (udSHIc1(!))   (udSHIc2(!))   (udSHIc3(!))   (udSHIc4(!))   (udSHIflr(!))   (udSHIglr(!)). -- Tuválkin 20:23, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
Pfff, things are getting complicated, ain't it? a×pdeHello! 12:10, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Since the difference between   (BS2c3) and   (uSHIc3(!)) is so little, do we really need the latter? I modified the geometry of the quarter-turn curve in question so that it has the same side as   (BS2+r). It differs from common quarter-turns, but is that really necessary? The result is   (dHALl+4 !), cf.   (dSTRl+4) at 20px and in the table. BTW, opinions on the name? YLSS (talk) 22:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
"HAL", well, half of what? We already have "d" to indicate half-width icons. In the end, it's a plain track running from the corner of a half-width icon to the side, and that's what the name says. I really see no problem that full-size icons with the corresponding name have a different design. a×pdeHello! 08:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
You don't, all the others do. So would you suggest anything yourself instead of dSTRl+4? And I'm more interested in your opinion of whether the design of the icon presently at   (dHALl+4 !) is better or not than the design of the icon presently at   (dSTRl+4). YLSS (talk) 10:35, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Any comments? Axpde? Anybody opposes me re-uploading Axpde's icons with my versions,✓ Done moving them to another title (apparently of my choice)✓ Done and asking some admin to restore old dSTR's?✓ Asked And tagging Tuválkin's corners for deletion?✓ Done YLSS (talk) 17:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
I Symbol keep vote.svg Agree -- Tuválkin 19:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
Symbol keep vote.svg Do it. Useddenim (talk) 05:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

FYI, 8 more now (uploaded after the discussion started but with the same names):   (edSTRr+1),   (edSTR2+r),   (edSTR3+l),   (edSTRl+4),   (exdSTRr+1),   (exdSTR2+r),   (exdSTR3+l),   (exdSTRl+4). YLSS (talk) 18:08, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Guy, we’re discussing the names, here, and everybody but you is unanimous that canibalizing the 45°-corner line sufixes for totally different half-wide icons is not a good idea. Why are you uploading these with names only you prefer? To play the fait accompli gambit? Trying hard to get your admin rights revoked? -- Tuválkin 19:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
(Also, judging from from these newly uploaded by you, I can see you still didn’t learn how Commons’ categorization works. -- Tuválkin 19:24, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
  1. My name's not "Guy"!
  2. I'm not "canibalizing"! As you can see above it's hard enough to find unique file names. It's only sensible to use all names we have. And numbers 1,2,3,4 are not unique to 45°-corner icons!
  3. I don't "play the fait accompli gambit". I'm doing the same as you do, if you're uploading new icons, you don't wait for me to aggree, do you?
  4. Stop you open provocation conc. my admin status! Uploading files isn't regarded "missuse of admin power" and that's another fact!
  5. Categorization should help finding files, not confusing everyone!
a×pdeHello! 19:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
2. True; “appropriating” is much closer to correctly describing your actions. And what else are the suffixes 1–4 used for, other than referencing the four corners?
4. But acting arbitrarily and without consensus is. And repeating something over and over doesn't necessarily make it true.
5. Categorization is open-ended: icons should be in all appropriate categories. If one is in an extra category that you weren't looking there for it, ignore it!
Useddenim (talk) 14:46, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion. Since for two weeks no admin at COM:AN had the courage to take care of the file histories, I uploaded my own versions of   (dSTRr+1) &   (dSTR2+r) (and also   (dSTR3+l) &   (dSTRl+4)). Faulty design - yes, but no solution here; cf.   (STR2+4h). If any admin chances to read this discussion (hint!), it would be appreciated if he restored the previous versions to their proper places. YLSS (talk) 09:09, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Proposals

BSicon BS2l.svg BSicon STR2h+r.svg BSicon dSTR2h+r.svg BSicon uSTR2h3h.svg BSicon STR2h+4.svg BSicon dSTR2h+4.svg BSicon STR2+r.svg BSicon ABZl+34.svg BSicon ABZf+1l.svg
current name BS2l BS2C+r dSTR2+r
dHAL2+r
uSHIglr(!) BS2l+4 dBS2l+4 STR2+r ABZl3+4
ABZl+34
ABZ3+l+4
ABZf+1l
proposal 1 SHI2 SHI2+r dSHI2+r uSHI23  ?  ?
proposal 2 SHIl SHIql dSHIql uSHIglr SHIl+4 dSHIl+4
proposal 3 STRg2s STRr2s dSTRr2s uSTR2s3s STR2s4 dSTR2s4 STRr2 STRl3+l4 STRfl+f1
proposal 4
(h suffix)
STR2h
  (STR2)
STR2h+r
  (STR2+r)
dSTR2h+r
  (dSTR2+r)
uSTR2h3h
  (STR23)
STR2h+4
  (STR2+4)
dSTR2h+4
  (dSTR2+4)
STR2+r ABZl+34 ABZf+1l

So... I was unable to decide by myself what name to choose for those curves, so let's go for a vote. I suppose nobody really likes the "BS2" root, nor the "-C" suffix. Personally, I would favour "SHI" over "HAL", but if you want, you can read the first and second rows in the table with "HAL" instead.

Row 1 was my first idea, and for the present group of icons it solves the problem quite simply: for "STR" root, the track heads into the corner at 45°, while for the "SHI" root, it splits in two. However, if an icon has one 45°-corner and one half-split corner, this strategy fails. The already existent   (BS2l+4) (and several similar) is not aesthetically perfect; but I've uploaded   (dBS2l+4) (matching   (dSTRc3)) that looks quite naturally. So in the second row I listed virtually the same "direction of travel" pattern as is now used by "BS2" icons, but with some tentative ideas for new icons.

4 g 1 y z
r BSicon TBHF1234.svg l 0 BSicon uvKRZ4d.svg 5
9 6
3 f 2 8 7

The third row is an example of a radically different idea of mine (which I have referred to elsewhere), drifting more towards WYSIWYG. Really, in   (dSTR2h+r) I don't see any shift; in   (vBS2l) I don't see any half; and such names as "vSTRl2r" and "vSTReql" just puzzle me (can you readily imagine what they mean?). What I do see in all those icons is track(s) running from one point to another. The points are shown to the right (only a tentative proposal for parallel lines!). If the track enters/exits (no difference here!) a point perpendicularly to the side (vertically for f & g, horizontally for l & r, at 45° for corners), than we just have a plain letter. These are listed in a fixed order (possibly g, f, l, r, 1, 2, 3, 4; or clockwise; or left-to-right & top-to-bottom), thus   (STRr2). When there are several tracks, they are separated by "+" (no sense "from" here), e.g.   (STRlr+l4). If a track enters in some other way, a second letter follows: for horizontal track "q", for vertical track "s" (de: senkrecht, en: straight. BTW, why nobody ever proposed this instead of "g" for de: geradeaus ?), as seen above. This pattern can be extended to the majority (if not all) BSicons. The resulting names would be longer, but IMHO clearer. Another possibility would be to drop STR altogether. BSicon fy+ly+lz, why not?

That said, I do not propose moving icons with long-established names according to this scheme. Those that I listed in the table above in italics, are only added for clarity and to show extensibility. I only suggest using this scheme in debated cases, such as the present one. Opinions? YLSS (talk) 17:26, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

After taking a fresh look this morning (well, it's morning in the Eastern time zone) I noticed that all the problematic names have half a line in a corner, so: h suffix then corner number corner number then h suffix! (which I listed as "proposal 4".) Useddenim (talk) 12:13, 25 May 2013 (UTC) Modified per YLSS’ suggestion. Useddenim (talk) 13:55, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
That would work for me, although I would've placed "h" after the corner number: less risk it would conflict with the "h" suffix as used in KRZ and similar. Or we could use "s" suffix as in my proposal 3, which I suppose is not in use yet. The only question is how to differentiate the present   (uBS2+rq) from   (uBS2C+r)? I would say that the first one, being the "ordinary" shift, should be   (uSTR2h+r) and the second possibly   (uSTR2q+r)? Or vice versa? YLSS (talk) 12:59, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
  (uSTRq2h); cf.   (uSTR2h) &   (uSTR3h). Useddenim (talk) 13:55, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
OK. I can only imagine then some trouble with a modification of   (STR3h+1h) with the top-right corner entering horizontally (a large quarter curve), but that one would be quite unorthodox and unlikely to be used. Do the others agree with this proposal? YLSS (talk) 15:57, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
Any ideas on renaming this one:   (exvBS2-rg)? -- Tuválkin 03:24, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Unless we implement a system referring the eight parallel lines entering points, I suppose this one should be   (exv-STR4h), cf.   (exSTR4). YLSS (talk) 10:01, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Excellent idea, exv-STR4h! ✓ Done A completely new naming system is something that crossed my mind several times — and that I partly used in separate sets, like the roads or the boundary lines, but I alçways come back to the established model, unperfect as it is… :-\ -- Tuválkin 11:59, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
BTW, since we now have this nice system, I hope you don't mind that I moved (the older) "v!STRl2r" & "v!STRr2l" to   (STR3h+1h) &   (STR2h+4h) and tagged (the newer)   (BS4l) &   (BS4r) as duplicate? YLSS (talk) 12:37, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Sure, go ahead. Any filename with a "!" is fair game, and one thing we al agreed so far is that "BS2" is not satisfactory. Now, it’s on. -- Tuválkin 14:25, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
Seems that I arrived late at this party, but I still wanted to say I like the h-suffix idea best. The letter "h" may not be the best choice but the developped syntax seems to be dead on. After musing about SHI & HAL it had struck me that this matter of a line entering the icon is an unusual way is akin to the k-style crossing, straights and forks, and that the way to go was a modifier such as that k, but you guys were faster and further than me, and I’m glad. It is on! -- Tuválkin 20:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

White plane icon

File:White plane icon.svg - qu'est ce que c'est? Why in Category:Icons for railway descriptions/legende? And what to do with it? YLSS (talk) 14:00, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

No BSicon, not our beer ;-) a×pdeHello! 14:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
Fixed. (But of course it could be argued that this one, and many others, are «icons for railway descriptions», and therefore belong in that category. Of course that category should be renamed to Category:BSicon, which clearly sets it apart as the one and only place for SVGs whose name starts with "BSicon_", meant to be used with the BS templates.) -- Tuválkin 14:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Continuation arrow heads on icon edge corners

I made these:

  • BSicon lCONT1f.svg BSicon lCONT2f.svg BSicon lCONT3f.svg BSicon lCONT4f.svg later added by YLSS: BSicon lCONTffq.svg BSicon lCONTggq.svg BSicon lCONTff.svg BSicon lCONTgg.svg
  • BSicon exlCONT1f.svg BSicon exlCONT2f.svg BSicon exlCONT3f.svg BSicon exlCONT4f.svg later added by YLSS: BSicon exlCONTffq.svg BSicon exlCONTggq.svg BSicon exlCONTff.svg BSicon exlCONTgg.svg

They allow for a continuation arrow to be added overlaid on an UW style icon, with no need for an additional diagram cell, for things like BSicon lCONT3f.svgBSicon STR3.svg  or BSicon lCONT3f.svgBSicon STR3+1.svg . See example use at en:Template:Dundee and Newtyle Railway. This kind of icons for non-corner overlays would need masking. -- Tuválkin 00:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Along the same lines, added 4×2 arrows for horizontal & vertical tracks. However, I must admit that "lCONTgf" ~ "Overlay icon for continuation arrow backward, moved forward" sounds weird. For proper application, masking was required; but on the other hand, no more need for such icons as   (ABZ-CONTqr)BSicon ABZq+r.svgBSicon lCONTffq.svg (lCONTffqABZq+r) . YLSS (talk) 17:22, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Names

The names are atypical as they use the corner numbers 1234 followed by an "f", meant to mean forward as in outwards; because an arrow head with only the corner name would mean that it points to a corner while sitting on the middle of the icon, as in, say,   (CONT3) without the track line (cp.   (CONTl) vs.   (lCONTl)). -- Tuválkin 00:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

They’re fine—you seem to have followed the example I set with the expanded set of POINTER icons. Useddenim (talk) 01:32, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

More formations

I've just uploaded these:   (lhBHF),   (lhKBHFa),   (lhKBHFe),   (lhHST),   (lhENDEa),   (lhENDEe),   (lhPSL),   (lhPSLm). They are mostly derived from the icons created by Tuválkin & Useddenim during this discussion. However, I needed "steel" versions of these, and in order not to create single-purpose icons, I decided to go for overlays. Failing to invent satisfactory names with FRM/(NUL)/(LGD), I chose a new pattern: "lh" + ROOT, on the assumption that anything overlayable won't be elevated (even though I wrote only yesterday that "l" & "h" are unimaginable together). No problem with that? YLSS (talk) 21:00, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

It is clear and easy to understand; I like it. -- Tuválkin 22:03, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Zigzag straights

I know these exist, 2 or 3, but I cannot find them anywhere. BSicons that start and end on the icon edges like normal straights   (STR) but which show zigzag curves — anyone saw them too? -- Tuválkin 02:44, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Do you mean these: Category:Icons for railway descriptions/uw/junction/zigzag? YLSS (talk) 09:06, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
No, not those. (But thanks!) -- Tuválkin 17:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
It was something like   (ZTRr) and   (ZTRl), in the set "u", I think. Cannot remember the names. -- Tuválkin 19:47, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Ah, maybe these:   (utDHNl),   (utDHNr),   (utDHTflr) ? YLSS (talk) 18:34, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Yesss, those very same!! Thank you! (Sorry for moving your reply; I was so distracted replying I didn’t notice you had already spottted them.) -- Tuválkin 19:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Out-of-use line crossing

Could a kind person please create a version of   (exKRZo+l) with the crossing in the top left hand corner (instead of the bottom right corner as shown here)? Ravenseft (talk) 13:47, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Here:   (exKRZor(!)). But these icons are just too cluttered — I’d rather enlarge the diagram a couple columns and use   (exkKRZor) instead. There’s also a problem with the names, as there are (at least) three lines to be flagged for usage status, and thus the —/e/x/ex system breaks apart. Needs fixing. -- Tuválkin 14:47, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
Many thanks! Ravenseft (talk) 14:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

INT-xL & -xR

exBHF-L BHF-R uexSTR exBHF-L BHF-xR uexSTR
exSTR INT-L uexINT-R exSTR INT-xL uexINT-R

How are these two:   (INT-xL) &   (INT-xR)? The idea (influenced by   (BHF-xL)) is that this is going to be an interchange to another station, but as yet is itn't (or it isn't anymore), so it is just a BHF. Tested it at en:Template:Crossrail 2. I know it is do-able by overlaying, but... I'm in a mood for experimenting. YLSS (talk) 11:39, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

I like it! -- Tuválkin 13:00, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


Roman numerals

BSicon num(R)1eqq.svg BSicon num(R)2eqq.svg BSicon num(R)3eqq.svg BSicon num(R)4eqq.svg
BSicon num(R)1aqq.svg BSicon num(R)2aqq.svg BSicon num(R)3aqq.svg

Unlike their platforms numbers, geared to passengers and numbered with regular numerals usually starting 1 and going parallel (up to 14 in Entroncamento), portuguese station and yard technical diagrams employ Roman numerals to uniquely identify all tracks in a given complex (example). I created a few so far. (The sufix "qq" is supposed to mean that not only the writing is rotated w.r.t. normal, say,   (num3l), but also flowing vertically.) -- Tuválkin 20:32, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Lineside square

I’m looking for a pair of icons that show a thick black square outline on either side of a   (STR). I know these exist, usied mainly in wp:fr, but I cannot find them in any BSicon catalog or repertoire. :-\ Help? -- Tuválkin 05:55, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

  (PRSl) &   (PRSr)? However, I have no idea what they are intended for. What is meant by "ancient post"? YLSS (talk) 14:06, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
Yep, those are the ones I meant — thank you very much! I’m not sure about poste (I’d use   (ELC legende) or some such), but I want to use them for trackside signals. -- Tuválkin 18:36, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
Are these experimental icons not for depicting signals?   (hsigdnl)Deonyi 05:54, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Seems so, but I don’t like it. The use of the same color is misleading, there’s no right-side equivalent, and the name is highly unstandard. -- Tuválkin 14:51, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

hINTACC

Can there be a series of icons that will show elevated disabled access stations with interchange, such as Pennsylvania Station (Newark)? It would be beneficial to make them for all prefixes.
Thanks!
Benhen1997 (talk) 20:37, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Until one creates them (I don't have much time now), you may consider using overlay icons: BSicon hNUL.svgBSicon INTACC.svg (INTACChNUL)  or BSicon lhBHF.svgBSicon INTACC.svg (INTACClhBHF) . This way you will also be able to choose whichever option suits your aesthetics. YLSS (talk) 20:52, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
How do I overlay in BS2? {{BS2|INTACC hNUL|SUBWAY|{{cvt|10|mi|0}}|[[Newark Penn Station|Newark]]}} Also the station is at the end of the elevated portion, so how would I do that? Benhen1997 (talk) 00:19, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Like this: {{BS2|hNUL|O1=INTACC|SUBWAY|{{cvt|10|mi|0}}|[[Newark Penn Station|Newark]]}} -- Tuválkin 00:43, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! Benhen1997 (talk) 01:22, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

HST on parallel lines

I don't know if I'm supposed to announce new creations, but I'll err on the side of caution and post here. Here are some parallel line with accessible station icons I created the other day. They've been added to en:Wikipedia:Route diagram template/Catalog of pictograms/parallel stations, but not any other language's documentation to my knowledge. Vanisaac (talk) 23:43, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

vSTR-HSTACC File:BSicon vSTR-HSTACC.svg BSicon vSTR-HSTACC.svg
vHSTACC-STR File:BSicon vHSTACC-STR.svg BSicon vHSTACC-STR.svg
vHSTACC File:BSicon vHSTACC.svg BSicon vHSTACC.svg
vACC-xSTR File:BSicon vACC-exSTR.svg BSicon vACC-exSTR.svg
vACC-STR File:BSicon vACC-STR.svg BSicon vACC-STR.svg
vSTR-ACC File:BSicon vSTR-ACC.svg BSicon vSTR-ACC.svg
vexSTR-ACC File:BSicon vexSTR-ACC.svg BSicon vexSTR-ACC.svg
vexSTR-HSTACC.svg File:BSicon vexSTR-HSTACC.svg BSicon vexSTR-HSTACC.svg
vHSTACC-xSTR.svg File:BSicon vHSTACC-exSTR.svg BSicon vHSTACC-exSTR.svg
Thanks for your uploads, and especially for using the trimmed code in later ones following my revisions (sorry if that was a bit rude from my side). It isn't necessary to make an announcement here if you create more or less standard modifications, adding them to the en.catalog is more beneficial, and categorising them is a must. Catalogues on other wikis are in various stages of dying or rotting... YLSS (talk) 17:58, 13 August 2013 (UTC)