Category talk:Districts by country

Problems without standardization

• two categories for the same topic can exist at the same time. Did that happen? Yes: Category:Distrito de San Miguel , Category:San Miguel District

Tamawashi (talk) 23:23, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

Renaming of district categories of East Timor

Dear Tamawashi. I reverted your renaming, because every category was empty after this. Please aware that there are different systems in use for naming a category. I used the German Wikipeda categorization, because this is the biggest Wikipedia about Timor-Leste and I am organizing this part for several years now. If you want to change names, please check to correct mistakes, caused by this. Greetings, --JPF (talk) 08:36, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

User:J. Patrick Fischer - "because every category was empty after this. " - bots will take care of this. Now there is mish-mash as Admin JuTa called it, again. German Wikipedia is a mess and "District" is not even a German word, therefore your explanation is nonsense. Please respect the standard form in Wikimedia Commons, Sektierertum hilft nicht weiter. What is the benefit of "Foo", "Foo Bar", "Foo bar", "Bar of Foo", "Foo (bar)", "Foo (Bar)"? Did you notice that categorization in Wikimedia Commons is done with English words? What is the sense of using "German Wikipedia categorization"? Would be helpful if you revert your reversions to the standard naming scheme. You say you organize it for several years - so during several years you didn't manage to apply a consistent naming scheme. You had some districts at "Foo" and other at "Foo (District)". District here is an English word, why capitalize like in German? Nouns in the disambiguation string are not normally not capitalized in Wikimedia, are they? You can look into other district categories, none except for East Timor has "Foo (District)" as far as I could see. Please think about using the "Foo Classname"-standard. Cheers and happy editing. Tamawashi (talk) 23:52, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

I do not know, why you are so unfriendly. "German wikipedia is a mess" is not a very good description, comparing to other language versions, especially looking for the East Timor categories. I saw changes made by an Commons account, which was welcomed just on 29 May 2014 and made his first edit at 6 June 2014. And I saw no corrections by a bot 8 hours after this edits (no corrections until now again for your second edits). That all looked like a mistake by a newbie. That is why I reedited it and wrote you this information. If there is a general rule in Commons, you can surely post a link for me to this. Anyhow, looking to Portuguese districts for example, there is the lemma with "(district)" in use too, not "district" like you used. I didn't wrote, I am using German spelling, I am using the rules about lemmas from German Wikipedia to produce a similar naming, missing a Commons standard. Of course a mistake with the capital "D" could be corrected, but using the addition "(district)" for Cova Lima, Oecusse and Manufahi is useless, because there is no town which could make another category name needed. If the addition is needed for your soul, I am accepting this useless addition, but if there is not a complete correction of the empty categories and links in Wikipedia articles until tomorrow evenning, I will reedit this renaming again and contact an admin, because I do not have the time to clean up half done work. --JPF (talk) 20:28, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

User:J. Patrick Fischer:

1. You wrote ""German wikipedia is a mess" is not a very good description" - how else would you describe what they do there? Nonsense? Compare with naming in English Wikipedia and you see the difference. English Wikipedia is not perfect, but far better. Look at de:Kategorie:Verwaltungseinheit nach Staat - most items are "Verwaltungseinheit in <country name>", but several country specific ones are not. That is what I would call mess. Then look at de:Kategorie:Verwaltungseinheit in Venezuela "Municipio in Venezuela" and "Venezoelanischer Bundesstaat". I would call that mess hoch 2. Then look at "de:Kategorie:Philippinische Provinz" - mess hoch 3.
2. You wrote "using the addition "(district)" for Cova Lima, Oecusse and Manufahi is useless" and "If the addition is needed for your soul, I am accepting this useless addition" and "because there is no town which could make another category name needed" - I didn't claim there would be a town, so your statement makes no sense in the discussion here. Please reduce nonsense statements. Did you ever hear about Oecusse Airport? Maybe not in German Wikipedia, but three Wikipedias have an article about it: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3536157
3. You wrote "If there is a general rule in Commons, you can surely post a link for me to this." - just browse the district, province, department etc categories. Using Foo (Bar) and even "Foo (bar)" is less common than "Foo Bar".
4. You wrote "I didn't wrote, I am using German spelling," - correct, you wrote " I used the German Wikipeda categorization" which includes spelling, right? And as shown under 1) it is inconsistent => messy.
5. You wrote "I am using the rules about lemmas from German Wikipedia to produce a similar naming, missing a Commons standard." - since names in Commons are in English and the English Wikipedia covers more topics, ceterius paribus it could be more clever to use English Wikipedia rules? But since even the English Wikipedia covers only a subset of all the items in all Wikipedia combined, and rules there are not made to have growth without constant renaming, this is likely to be inferior to a clever standard in Commons too.

Tamawashi (talk) 18:10, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

1. I am not talking about Venezuela or Philippines, I am talking about East Timor. Additions to districts names are useless, if there is no further need to make a difference. If you have problems with categorizations in German Wikipedia, you can write at the discussion page there. Calling German Wikipedia generally a mess, is more than unfirendly and incorrect.
2. "Oecusse airport" is one of the examples for incorrect informations in en-WP. The airfield in Oecusse is called Palaban, that is all existing there. If you are not from East Timor, don't try to tell me sth about this country. Anyhow, even if the airport would be called Oecusse airport, it would be the first one in Commons, whose category would be called Oecusse without airport.
3. "less common" than sth else, doesn't make it wrong. Don't try to invite rules.
4. Wrong. I was talking about the brackets and not use of additions, if there is no need for it.
5. So far, I didn't see a clever standard made by you, I just saw half done work, resulting in empty categories. It was not cleaned up by a bot, JuTa made this by hand. It is less the problem, you renamed categories without any need, the problem is, you are causing jobs for others to do. So once again: IF you want to change something, do it complete, instead of judging incompetent about other Wikipedias or trying to tell someone, who just wrote an article about a district, what airports are there.
6. One more thing: There is no reason to copy an en-WP-system to Commons, just because English is used here. German Wikipedia has for example the biggest amount of East Timor informations of all Wikipedias, so it is logical to use it as paradigm (of course with changing the language into English). But that is not the problem here. I was talking about erroneous renaming, causing mistakes iin ALL systems. --JPF (talk) 21:36, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

User:J. Patrick Fischer:

1. "I am not talking about Venezuela or Philippines, I am talking about East Timor." - I am talking about categorization and that German Wikipedia is a mess. You wanted a prove, I gave it. Commons is not only for East Timor in German style.
2. "Anyhow, even if the airport would be called Oecusse airport, it would be the first one in Commons, whose category would be called Oecusse without airport." - what? I didn't say it would be called without "airport". Once again a nonsense statement in this discussion. And even the article in the German Wikipedia for the district is not called "Oecusse" but instead includes the class name. Now for the name, try: https://www.google.com/search?q=WPOC+icao, http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/cefact/locode/tl.htm
3. I didn't say it was wrong. It just was not made for clarity and stable naming. is more than unfirendly and incorrect. - I gave proof, you not.
4. You claim "Wrong" - can you show me a categorization in a Latin script Wikipedia that does not include spelling?
5. So far, I didn't see a clever standard made by you - this does not matter. I just saw half done work - I renamed all, not only half of the East Timor category pages. resulting in empty categories - as said before, bots would fix that. It was not cleaned up by a bot, JuTa made this by hand. - fine, he is a GREAT HELP in cleaning up the mish-mash in Commons. You can learn more about software at Commons at the page: "Category:Non-empty category redirects". IF you want to change something, do it complete - that is what I did with East Timor districts. I completely did the work to the point that bots could do the rest. instead of judging incompetent about other Wikipedias - source that I did so? Or is your statement just made for defamation?
6. Once again: Commons is not only for East Timor. It is made for knowledge in general. German Wikipedia has for example the biggest amount of East Timor informations - but no article dedicated to the districts, which is present in ca 20 other Wikipedias: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q741821

Tamawashi (talk) 22:15, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

That is exactly the problem: I am talking about problems, you are creating in some categories, you are strating to discuss about general categorizations, which have nothing to do with your half done work. That has nothing to do about prefered systems, I am talking about your personal mistakes. That is why I wrote on your personal discussion and not to a category discussion. I think, you should start thinking about your behaviour. Personal attacks like "nonsense" are not accetable in a discussion. How old are you? Finally, pointing out, there would be no article about the "Districts of East Timor" is clearly showing, you have no idea about the existing articles about East Timor. Well, I do not care about your believings. If I see again editing by you which is causing empty categories, I will see this active vandalism. I have nothing to say more about this. --JPF (talk) 06:30, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

User:J. Patrick Fischer:

1. "That is exactly the problem: I am talking about problems" - that exist only for a short time, until bots would have fixed it. I am talking about problems of unsystematic naming of items, problems that exist for years in Wikipedia.
2. "I am talking about your personal mistakes" - maybe fix your personal "mistakes" first?
3. "Personal attacks like "nonsense" are not accetable in a discussion." - .... "nonsense" is a noun, not a personal attack. But let's look at your first comment, you wrote: "If you want to change names, please check to correct mistakes, caused by this." - you were actually attacking me, claiming I made a mistake, didn't you? But there was none. Just you were not aware of the fact that bots would clean it. Then let's look further, at your 2nd comment, were you several times used the word "useless" in relation with my edits, e.g. "If the addition is needed for your soul, I am accepting this useless addition," - using it in relation to my "soul". I think you left the area of actually working on the problems at hand, here at Wikimedia Commons. What is good for my soul is improvement of content.
4. "Finally, pointing out, there would be no article about the "Districts of East Timor" is clearly showing, you have no idea about the existing articles about East Timor." - I gave a link pointing to a list of articles in different language Wikipedias having the sole topic "districts of East Timor". German Wikipedia was not in that list. That was, what my claim was about. So, if you know there is one in the German Wikipedia, please link it in Wikidata, so users can find it there.
5. "If I see again editing by you which is causing empty categories, I will see this active vandalism." - That is up to you. But empty categories for a short period of time are part of the renaming process.

Tamawashi (talk) 23:54, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

1. It was not a bot, who refilled the empty categories. It was User:JuTa, who needed 1 hour to make YOUR work.
2. There is a complete list of administration entities of East Timor in de-WP, instead of three seperated lists for districts, subdistricts and sucos. en-WP has another tradition, producing many small articles, while de-WP prefers to present articles, with complete overviews
3. A normal renaming process would be, if you not wait for others making your job.

--JPF (talk) 07:20, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

User:J. Patrick Fischer:

1. • a) "It was not a bot, who refilled the empty categories." - this was addressed before, why do you bring this up again? I wrote "bots would have fixed it". See an example here: 2014-06-19 category renamed, 2014-06-21 bot moves a subcategory to the new place.
   • b) "who needed 1 hour to make YOUR work." - How do you know he needed one hour? Where is it defined that it is my work? ("YOUR" is shouting. Sometimes there are rules that ask to not do this. I have no idea how it is done in Commons. I personally don't care, just a warning that you might be sanctioned for this.)
2. Good, so no article dedicated to the districts, as was my initial claim, but only an article about Verwaltungseinheiten. That means your claim that I "have no idea about the existing articles about East Timor" is baseless. Regarding the de-WP-article on Verwaltungseinheiten - it not even contains one table listing the districts, a table that exists in: en, fr, (gl has list of images), he, hy, id, lt, mk, ja, ko, (ms, nl have html-list not table), no, pt, sv, tet, uz, vi, zh.
3. A normal renaming process would be, if you not wait for others making your job. - I don't understand what you want to say with that. I never waited for others to do my job.That in turn means the renaming process was normal. Does it mean that you now agree that the process was normal? Tamawashi (talk) 04:04, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

I am not agree with your approach, but there is no need to repeat myself. --JPF (talk) 20:00, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Why rename categories as "District of Nyon" into "Nyon District"

I remarked that Tamawashi renamed the Category:District of Nyon into Category:Nyon District. I cannot understand this action, because the normal language use is "Canton of Vaud", "District of Nyon" and not "Vaud Canton" or "Nyon District", whichs sounds very strange. Therfore this kind of change is not only not usfull but against the language rules.DidiWeidmann (talk) 10:28, 30 June 2014 (UTC)