Commons:Quality images candidates/Archives November 09 2021

Consensual review edit

File:Niflettes_de_Seine_et_Marne.jpg edit

 

  • Nomination Niflettes, traditional pastries from Seine et Marne --Aloxe 21:52, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Decline
  •   Oppose Sorry! Not sharp enough and too low DOF. --Steindy 00:11, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Weak support, short DoF, but I think the ones in front are sharp enough. -- Ikan Kekek 08:50, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Oppose Unsharp overall -- Alvesgaspar 14:13, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Oppose WB far off, too low DOF. --Smial 01:31, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Total: 1 support (excluding the nominator), 3 oppose →   Declined   --Augustgeyler 01:38, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

File:Riserva_naturale_della_Rocca_di_Manerba_del_Garda.jpg edit

 

  • Nomination La Rocca peak in the natural reserve Park. --Moroder 05:50, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Decline
  •   Oppose Sorry. The image is too blurry. In addition, there are stitching artifacts in the sky because the vignetting has not been completely removed. --Carsten Steger 09:19, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
    • Sorry but this comment doesn't make sense --Moroder 15:31, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
      •   Comment I have added a note to the image in the part where I perceive the residual vignetting in the sky. I assume this is a panorama image because the resolution of the Hasselblad X1D camera is much smaller than the resolution of the image. --Carsten Steger 15:53, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
  •   Support This is a humongous and beautiful file. The fact that there are artifacts at unusually high resolution when we are sitting at our computers and looking at a large screen from a meter or less is irrelevant. -- Ikan Kekek 23:59, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
    •   Comment I agree that the composition is beautiful. I don't understand your second point, unfortunately. To me, what is the point of having a 170 megapixel image that is unsharp? My estimate is that the optical resolution of the image is at most sufficient for a quarter of its present size (10000×4285, i.e., a 42.5 megapixel image). --Carsten Steger 10:03, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  • Isn't the point of a very large image to print it and look at it from a few meters away? -- Ikan Kekek 19:38, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment I have pondered your comment for a while now. I must confess that I don't understand the point you are trying to make. As an example, a 2 m wide print of an image viewed from a distance of 6 m will look exactly identical to a 1 m wide print of an image viewed from a distance of 3 m. This is a basic fact of projective geometry and holds for any image size (i.e., number of pixels in the image). Could you provide me with a reference so that I can try to understand the point you are trying to make better? In any event, I am reasonably sure that the main purpose of having larger images (images with more pixels) is the ability to discern more details, i.e., a larger image resolution, and image resolution is primarily determined by the optical resolution of the lens and not the number of pixels of the sensor. Consequently, the larger the number of pixels in the image, the better the optical resolution of the lens must be. Otherwise, you will simply get blurred images. --Carsten Steger 19:32, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment I take your point: maybe this photo is larger than it needs to be. But photos aren't supposed to be downsampled, and even at 100% on my 23.5-inch monitor, it hardly looks unforgivably blurred, especially considering how far away I should look at it (maybe more like 3 meters). -- Ikan Kekek 05:56, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment I’m sorry. I just realized that I didn’t make the point I was trying to make in my last comment explicit enough. By just specifying the distance at which to look at a print of the image, one important piece of information is missing: the dimensions of the print. Without this information, it is impossible to judge the visual appearance the print would have. It makes a significant difference whether you look at a 20 cm or a 10 m wide print at a distance of 3 m (I’m exaggerating the widths to make my point clear). What width do you have in mind for the print if you imagine looking at it at a distance of 3 m? --Carsten Steger 08:42, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  • I haven't calculated how large a print we would get if we printed it out at full size. However, I guess 3 meters would be too far, maybe 2 1/4, whatever is equivalent to about 7 feet. -- Ikan Kekek 09:39, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment I have done some calculations. The human eye has an optical resolution of approximately 1 arcminute. At a distance of 3 m, a pixel in an image would have to be printed at a side length of approximately 0.87 mm to match the optical resolution of the human eye. Therefore, at this resolution, the image would have to be printed at a width of approximately 17.5 m to match the resolution of the human eye. (It you want to use your 7 feet (2.1 m) as the distance, scale every quantity by 0.7.) If the image is printed smaller, the optical resolution of the human eye becomes the limiting factor. Essentially, what would happen is that the image would be subsampled (downscaled) by the human eye. This shows that high-resolution should be looked at from short distances; otherwise the high resolution is just wasted. --Carsten Steger 12:14, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment Do you feel the same way about large paintings? The point of things being large is partly that a large composition gives a particular feeling that's different from a smaller one. I don't normally peer at large paintings up close. -- Ikan Kekek 22:50, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment I'm also getting the distinct feeling that people are saying that photos that are "too big" should be downsampled, yet downsampling is not recommended here. Should we have a discussion on the talk page to clarify things? -- Ikan Kekek 22:52, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Oppose odd sky, too saturated colours (is it HDR?). --Kallerna 08:08, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Oppose As Carsten Steger. What's the point of composing such a huge blurred image? Motion blur due to non-stabilized lens or unwanted artificial enlargement by the stitching application?-- Alvesgaspar 13:36, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Total: 1 support (excluding the nominator), 3 oppose →   Declined   --Augustgeyler 22:55, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

File:Playa_Vasco_de_Gama,_Sines,_Portugal,_2021-09-12,_DD_27-38_PAN.jpg edit

 

  • Nomination Vasco de Gama Beach, Sines, Portugal --Poco a poco 11:27, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Promotion
  •   Support Qoog Quality. --ADARSHluck 15:22, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
  •   Oppose Unrealistic depiction of the place (which I know quite well) due to an extreme perspective manipulation -- Alvesgaspar 15:54, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak   Support I also find such cylindrical projections unappealing from an aesthetic point of view, but it seems to me to be technically flawlessly executed and therefore meets the conditions for QIC. --Smial 11:59, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment According to my interpretation of the guidelines, quality is not only about technical perfection: vertical lines vertical, absence of stitching errors, absence of blown areas, absence of noise, sharpness, etc. It is also about a balanced and pleasant composition, making justice to the object being photographed. In my opinion, such a drastic perspective transformation clearly collides with the norm that "perspective distortion should either have a purpose or be insignificant". Alvesgaspar 17:14, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
    •   Comment Indeed a panoramic view with cylindrical projection has purpose. --Smial 17:24, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
    •   Question And what should that purpose be? By the way, there is a prominent stitching error along the central vertical line. -- Alvesgaspar 18:03, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
      • I uploaded a new version addressing that issue Poco a poco 20:19, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
        • I don't think the problem was solved. In fact, there are three stitching lines easily spotted in thumbnail size. Alvesgaspar 20:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
      • The purpose of panoramic photos is described here --Smial 09:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Oppose A bit too much going on here, at least for the moment. Both sides are leaning out, especially the left; there are   chromatic aberrations...--Peulle 11:16, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
    Peulle: Along with additional improvements of stitching areas, I've reduced the CA and improved the perspective --Poco a poco 19:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Support I think you should state somewhere on the page that this is a cylindrical projection, but as such, it seems good to me, and the CAs I see are very minor at full or nearly full size on a 23.5-inch monitor, so I consider that really de minimis. -- Ikan Kekek 21:21, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment It doesn't really matter what kind of projection it is, when reality is so extremely distorted. Nominations are opposed in QIC when vertical lines are not shown perfectly parallel to each other, while they are supported despite the gross distortions caused by the application of some magic projection. Well, I am a mathematical cartographer and know that there is nothing magical or intrinsically true about map projections, which are just tools used to preserve some chosen geometric properties or obtain some chosen effect. The same happens with the projections used in Photography, whose main purpose is - or should be - to represent the 3D reality captured by a camera as closely as possible to what our eyes perceive. Or, alternatively, to obtain some artistic effect, which is not the case here. What about the obvious stitching lines left by joining the individual images that are part of this panorama? Are they also minor flaws mitigated by the magical result of a cylindrical projection? Come on guys, what's going on here? Is this the competent, reliable and helpful forum we all would like QIC to be, or has been transformed into something else? I would urge Poco a poco to withdraw the nomination of this photo, which doesn't make justice to his otherwise excellent work. -- Alvesgaspar 23:27, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment I've been a geography buff since I was 6, and Mercator's Projection for world maps is not more accurate than this, but it was until fairly recently standard and often seen for such maps. I think that as long as the type of distortion is specified, it is a matter of taste. -- Ikan Kekek 01:40, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment More improvements in stitching areas. Btw the affirmation that stitching issues were visible at thumbnail size is not just insulting but bullshit. Poco a poco 19:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Info Here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Playa_Vasco_de_Gama,_Sines,_Portugal,_2021-09-12,_DD_27-38_PAN.jpg . Three stitching lines are visible, as well as slightly different colours and patterns on each side. -- Alvesgaspar 19:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Comment @Alvesgaspar: I don't quite understand your comment “It doesn't really matter what kind of projection it is, when reality is so extremely distorted.” Any panorama must have these kinds of distortions since a panorama essentially must map a (part of a) sphere to a plane (identically to what needs to be done in cartography). Are you implying that panorama images cannot be quality images? What about images taken with fisheye lenses? These also exhibit (by design) strong distortions. Would such an image qualify as a quality image in your opinion? --Carsten Steger 12:32, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Question Poco a poco, I supported, but don't you think you should inform the viewer who doesn't know what this beach really looks like that this is a cylindrical projection? I think you should. -- Ikan Kekek 01:16, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
      Done Poco a poco 09:49, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
  •   Neutral It is very hard for me to say, if that kind of projection is suitable for that purpose. --Augustgeyler 19:18, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Total: 3 support (excluding the nominator), 2 oppose →   Promoted   --Peulle 08:33, 8 November 2021 (UTC)