Open main menu

Commons:Руководство по ведению обсуждений

This page is a translated version of a page Commons:Talk page guidelines and the translation is 37% complete. Changes to the translation template, respectively the source language can be submitted through Commons:Talk page guidelines and have to be approved by a translation administrator.

Outdated translations are marked like this.
Other languages:
Deutsch • ‎English • ‎dansk • ‎français • ‎magyar • ‎polski • ‎português • ‎русский • ‎українська • ‎العربية • ‎فارسی • ‎中文 • ‎日本語 • ‎한국어

Shortcut: COM:TALK

There are two types of talk pages – standard talk pages are used to discuss a Commons page or File, while user talk pages are used to communicate with other users or leave them messages. Every page has an associated talk page, except pages in the Special: namespace. If there is no discussion of a page, the link to its talk page will be red. You can still discuss the page - you will just be the first person to do so.

This page provides guidelines on using standard talk pages and user talk pages on Commons.

Contents

Выкладка

  • Proceed vertically: The further down the contribution to talk, the later it was made.
  • Use indenting to keep the conversation straight: The first contributor is all the way to the left, the next person starts with one colon (:), the next person starts with two colons. Then, when the first contributor responds, they start at the left margin again, and the second and third persons continue to mark themselves with one and two colons respectively. In that way, who is saying what is clear. Other indentation systems are also widely used.
  • Separate discussion topics: Put each new topic under a different headline (== Subject ==). The "Post a comment" feature accomplishes this automatically when you enter a subject line. The edit summary is automatically the same as this header. Thus every thread is a section. This allows section editing of the thread in question (see w:Wikipedia:Sections).
  • Use whitespace when making a point by point discussion: While conciseness in a talk page discussions is always desirable, sometimes, when engaged in point by point discussions, it is impossible to be brief. In such cases, use paragraph breaks when you've reached the end of your discussion of one point. This results in a much clearer post, that is also easier to respond to.

Наценка

  • Sign your posts: Signing your post is a common courtesy which allows people an easy way to see who is speaking; unsigned posts are confusing. To sign and date a post, type four tilde characters (~~~~) or click the signature button in your edit toolbar.
  • Avoid markup: Don't use a lot of Italic text, Bold text, or CAPITAL LETTERS. These are considered SHOUTING, and contribute to the view that you are RANTING!!!!!
  • Voting: Various pages invite you to vote on a topic. Using the posting conventions of this section, add your vote as a bullet (*) underneath the relevant topic and bold (''') your actual vote. (You may use one of the polling templates.) Your vote will typically not carry much weight unless you include your rationale for the vote. Make sure to sign your post (~~~~), as described above.

Заголовки страниц обсуждения

Refrain from using headers to personally address people on talk pages. Headers should be used to facilitate discussion by indicating and limiting topics related to the associated page. For instance, you could make a header whose title describes in a few words one problem you have with that page. This will make it easy for people to address that issue, work towards consensus, and eventually resolve the issue or dispute and improve that page.

Архивация

Archive rather than delete: When a talk page's content has become extremely large or the discussion of the issue in hand has simply died down and no one has a reasonable chance of adding to it, create a new page and move the content there. (See Help:Содержание and w:Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page for details.)

Архивирование руководств
  1. Create the archive page in the talk or Commons talk namespace - usually as a subpage of the original talk page. Give it an explanatory name. Often people simply add "archive" to the original name, for example User:Example/Archive 1. If it's not obvious from the page name, explain on the archive page where the text you plan to archive will come from and provide a link. Cut the relevant content from the original page and paste it into the new page. Add the {{Talkarchive}} template or the {{Automatic archive navigator}} template at the top.
  2. Replace the text on the original page with a link to the archive, or use a template such as {{Archive box}} at the top of the page. In some cases it may be appropriate to summarise ("refactor") the discussion and provide a link to the version with the full text.
Автоматическая архивация

Хорошая практика общения

Для чего могут быть использованы страницы обсуждений

Страницы обсуждения не для общения на отвлечённые темы; Пожалуйста, поддерживайте дискуссию на страницах обсуждения в рамках темы о том, как улучшить связанную статью.

For issues which have an verifiably correct and relatively undisputed answer, please do feel free to use the talk pages to facilitate fact checking (which sometimes includes resolving disputes over factual accuracy).

Общие положения

 
To avoid communication problems, try to keep yourself on the top sections of this scheme.
  • Assume good faith: In other words, try to consider the person on the other end of the discussion is a thinking, rational being who is trying to positively contribute to Commons — unless, and only unless, you have firm, solid, and objective proof to the contrary. Merely disagreeing with you is no such proof.
  • Communicate: When communicating on a talk page, answer if somebody asks for further explanation of your edits. Don't just repeat yourself instead.
  • Be concise: If your post is longer than 100 words and is not a detailed, point by point discussion, consider shortening the result. Long, rambling messages are frequently difficult to understand, and therefore difficult to deal with appropriately. As a result, rambling posts are frequently either ignored, or misunderstood.
  • Keep the discussion readable: Do not edit or remove comments made by other people unless they are offensive, uncivil or otherwise violate the guidelines or policies of Commons. Otherwise, such edits are rude and make it difficult for others to follow discussions. When it is necessary to edit or remove comments, explain your reasoning in your edit summary. Often it is clearer to strike a comment, rather to change or delete it, especially if it is followed by a response. Use <s>struck through comment</s> to generate struck through comment. This guidance applies to discussions other than on your own user talk page, but is good practice on your page, also.

Другие функции

  • Make links freely: Links to pages are as useful on talk pages as anywhere else, and links to non-existent pages can help get them onto the most wanted pages list.
  • Use UTC when referring to a time, e.g. the time of an edit or page move.
  • When discussing the name of the page, cite the current name: if the page is moved afterwards, the Talk page is usually also moved, so then it would not be clear what you were talking about and people may think e.g. that you are suggesting to change the new name, while you were referring to the old one.

Дискуссии

Если у Вас возникли разногласия или проблемы с чьим-либо поведением, пожалуйста, прочитайте w:Wikipedia:Resolving disputes.

Как избежать злоупотреблений использованием Страниц обсуждений

Most people take pride in their work and in their point of view. Egos can easily get hurt in editing, but Talk pages are not a place for striking back. They're a good place to comfort or undo damage to egos, but most of all they're for forging agreements that are best for the pages they're attached to.

Несколько вещей, которые следует иметь в виду

  • Если кто-то не согласен с Вами, это не означает, что (1) человек испытывает к Вам агрессию, (2) человек сомневается в Ваших интеллектуальных способностях, (3) человек ошибается, и т.д. Когда люди пишут мнения без возможной реальной пользы для Статьи, лучше просто оставлять такие сообщения без комментариев.
  • Страница может не нуждаться в обсуждении. Прежде, чем начать обсуждение, подумайте: Является ли действительно необходимым обсуждение возникшего у Вас вопроса? Можете ли Вы предоставить summary с Вашей версией?
  • Вы всегда можете обсудить волнующий Вас вопрос по электронной почте или на странице пользователя, если вопрос не является непосредственно необходимым для статьи.

Несколько советов о том, как вести вежливую и конструктивную дискуссию

  • Всегда ясно, к кому конкретно Вы обращаетесь, особенно в ответах.
    • Ссылка на чьё-либо сообщение не является нарушением нормы, однако, постарайтесь установить, что вы правильно его интерпретировали. Прежде, чем сделать вывод о том, что кто-либо ошибается, следует убедиться, что Вы правильно поняли собеседника.
  • Не следует "вешать ярлыки" или "personally attack" на людей или их правки.
    • Такие термины, как "расист", "сексист" или даже "плохо написана", делают пользователей менее активными и являются для них оскорбительными. Это снижает продуктивность общения между собеседниками и ставит под сомнение конструктивность дискуссии.

Ещё несколько рекомендаций

Общие положения для Wikicovenant из Kingturtle:

  • Приветствуйте других пользователей (даже давних участников, даже тех, кто Вам неприятен)
  • Создавайте и поддерживайте дружественную атмосферу общения
  • Подставь другую щеку (включая в себя избегание потенциальных войн редакторов)
  • Выражайте одобрение, особенно тем пользователям, которых Вы не знаете ( большинству людей приятно знать, что в них нуждаются и их действия не бесполезны)
  • Прощай ошибки.

Персональные страницы обсуждения участников

Can I do whatever I want to my own user talk page?

Most users treat their user talk pages like regular talk pages, and archive the contents periodically to a personal subpage—either when the page gets too large, on a regular schedule, or when they take a wikivacation. Others delete comments after they have responded to them (but this practice is no longer recommended—archiving is preferred). To easily and quickly set up automatic archiving there are standard setups available (see above).

Actively erasing personal messages without replying (if a reply would be appropriate or polite) will probably be interpreted as hostile. In the past, this kind of behavior has been viewed as uncivil, and this can become an issue in dispute resolution.

Do not attempt to redirect your user talk page to a talk page on another Wikimedia project. Not only do such redirects not work, but they also inconvenience others for the sake of one's own convenience, remove Commons-related discussions from Commons, and cause problems with message templates which are only available on Commons. If you do not visit Commons regularly, you can edit your preferences to enable e-mail notifications for new talk page messages (go to Preferences and look for the “Email options” section; see also Help:Email notification). Redirecting your user talk page to another page on Commons (whether meant as a joke or intended to be offensive or to send a "go away" message) can also be considered a hostile act.

Feel free to decorate your personal pages as you see fit, but keep in mind that your user talk page has the important function of allowing other editors to communicate with you. People will get upset if they cannot use it for that purpose.

How to keep a two-way conversation readable

If you are writing messages back and forth between user talk pages, the resulting text can be hard to following. Here are two systems for making what would otherwise be disjointed comments easier to follow:

  • Copy the text you are replying to from your user talk page to the other person's user talk page. Put your reply right underneath it, but indent the reply section so it stands out. (Just like a regular talk page.)

OR:

  • Put a notice on your user talk page that you'll reply there unless they ask otherwise. Do this for conversations that other people start.
  • Watchlist the other person's user talk page and tell them they can reply there. Do this for conversations you start.

См. также