File talk:Flag of India.svg

 

Colours

@Undertiago: , I am responding to the comments you included with your File:Flag of India.svg upload today. When I uploaded a new copy of File:Flag of India.svg on Feb 9, 2023, I admit I was focusing on geometry and not colours. I just used the colours that were in the previous version. Usually I stay clear of discussions on flag colours. Today I made an exception and had a look at the history. It looks something like this:

• Dec 22,2022: User:Swapnil1101 uploaded a flag with #ff671f(orange), #046a38(green), and #06038d(blue). This was a large change from pale orange to dark orange. No proper explanation was provided at the time.
• Jan 05,2022: you (User:Undertiago) uploaded a flag with #f15b2a(orange), #026937(green), and #06038d(blue). You claimed the colours came from www.pmindia.gov.in.
• Jan 10,2023: User:Swapnil1101 claimed on this very talk page that his colours had also come from the same pmindia webpage.
• Feb 17,2022 (today): you (User:Undertiago) uploaded a flag with #f15b25(orange), #006934(green), and #2c2c6f(blue). The shade of blue is more purple than what it was on your Jan 5 flag. I would not call it "navy" which I believe is what it is supposed to be.

Now if I look at the pmindia webpage I see a tiny flag that is embedded in a file with URL: www.pmindia.gov.in/wp-content/themes/pmindia2015/images/logo.png. Am I missing something? Is there supposed to be a larger flag somewhere on that website? Anyway I imported the file (logo.png) into Inkscape today for the purpose of examining colours. I sampled over as large an area as possible without going near the edges. This is what I see:

• blue: #2c2b6f # this is measured off of a single pixel and is a totally unreliable measurement that results in the same purple shade of blue that you got.
• orange: #f15b2b
• green: #036a38

All I can say is that I agree that your colours are much closer to what is in the logo.png file than the colours used by Swapnil1101, but measuring a single pixel of blue is somewhat bogus. Now I have to ask: Why are we straying so far from the colours shown at https://knowindia.india.gov.in/national-identity-elements/national-flag.php. Is India officially or unofficially switching to darker colours because the PM does not like the old ones? Is this something that made the news like it did when Macron starting using a darker shade of blue on the French flag? The local flag file at w:Flag_of_India is still light orange. Ultimately it would be nice if it matched the one we have here on Wikimedia Commons. Whether they are dark or light does not matter much to me as long as they are the same.MapGrid (talk) 00:31, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

@MapGrid: I actually said that I was appreciating the work that everyone did, but thanks for speaking to me. When I saw that the file of the flag of India changed it's colors on 22 December 2022, I started investigating about the "government regulation" said by SpinnerLaserzthe2nd. I didn't found anything, the only thing I found is the logo at www.pmindia.gov.in which I found it thanks to a file named Flag_India.svg which is linked on Flag_of_India.svg. Firstly I really thought that the colors where changed like the flag of France, so I decided to upload the version with the colors of the Prime Minister of India website. After uploading, no one responded to me about the colors that the file was using. After a long time, when I uploaded the version that is now being used, I reinvestigate and curiosly I found out that the saffron of the file (orange color of the flag) was the same as it was in Vexilla Mundi, which it's not of the best vexilology website, the green wasn't equal but was really similar as the shown there (the shown on this file is 349 C and the shown on Vexilla Mundi is 348 C). I am not saying that the colors of the file where changed because of Vexilla Mundi, I just think it's suspicious.

I think we should contact Swapnil1101 to know where are this colors from, if he doesn't replies or he actually added the colors that seemed correct to him, then we can email the India Government and finally they could share us the official colors of the flag. Undertiago (talk) 06:45, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

@User:Undertiago, The Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS) has a three year old blog article about the flag at: bis.gov.in. I just left a comment with some embedded questions. If the comment is approved by a moderator it will become visible to all. Basically I asked if the BIS would ever publish RGB colour codes for the flag of India. I also pointed out the colour discrepancy between pmindia and knowindia. Being that the article was three years I don't have much confidence that I will get a response, but I thought it was worth a try. Emailing the government (as you suggested) is certainly still an option if this goes nowhere. To be honest, I don't believe that the BIS currently has any standard RGB values because if it did, it would surely have published them by now. However if anybody in the government is going to come up with an official set of RGB values in the future, I would assume the BIS would want to be involved. MapGrid (talk) 05:28, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Based on examination of higher-resolution physical government flags, User:Swapnil1101's colors are more accurate.

Regarding the English Wikipedia: I think we should not change the English Wikipedia file until the color debate is solved.

Regarding the Commons file: I would suggest changing the current blue to navy blue (measurement from a single pixel in a low-resolution image is unreliable) 98.213.225.105 01:28, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello, can you share me the government flag images you examinated please, because most of them have the colors that the actual file uses. The following image is from an indian manufacturer (https://images.news18.com/ibnlive/uploads/2022/08/bengeri-karnataka-khadi-flags-tricolour-16603379364x3.png) you will see that the colors used for the flags are very similar in comparation with the ones that this file uses. Also, its been exactly two weeks since MapGrid sent a message to the BIS, so I will be emailing the indian government for the color specifications. Undertiago (talk) 18:59, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

And what are the official color specifications that you received? 98.213.225.105 23:12, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

We can see if User:Undertiago is able to get anything from the government. In the meantime, the comments I left on the blog at bis.gov.in did not get approved by a moderator. I would not be surprised if the moderator is a bot that simply deletes all new comments; all the blogs on that site have a box for new comments but none of the blogs have any comments displayed. MapGrid (talk) 04:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for taking this so long, but I'm having some trouble contacting the government, because although I have the letter, I'm not sure to what email should I send it to, as I've never done this before. Undertiago (talk) 01:10, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

@Undertiago, I suspect that the Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS) is the only body with the authority to define a colour for the flag. However, any changes or additions to the Flag Code might need to be approved by parliament before they could be deemed as official. BIS has an e-mail address at [1]. I doubt you will get the response you are looking for, but it certainly does not hurt to try! MapGrid (talk) 02:33, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

@Undertiago Have you received an email yet? 98.213.225.105 14:38, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately not, I sent the email 5 days ago and I think they are ignoring me because it doesn't take much time for them to search that information. Undertiago (talk) 15:24, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

they will not reply you, only reply you can get from manufacturer that is Khadi India, Karnataka, and they are going to tell you its 165C, 349C. i asked them on phone call Hexadecimal value but they replied with Pantone. this is the first time i got to know about pantone coloring system. I spent ₹300 filing numerous RTI and waited for 6 months to receive reply form Home Ministry, GoI and BIS. home ministry will reply that they forwarded your query to BIS and BIS will never reply you. Swapnil1101 (talk) 14:51, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

@Swapnil1101 I investigated and Khadi India is part of the Government of India, so I think we should use your Pantone colours if we count that the government accepts this. Undertiago (talk) 17:41, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

@Undertiago Did you actually change the blue to a bluish-purple just by measuring a single pixel of a low-resolution image? 98.213.225.105 21:56, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes... I took the colour exactly from the center of the emblem which gave a blue colour that looked natural in comparison with the others. Undertiago (talk) 00:15, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Also, the file is protected and I can't overwrite it to another with Swapnil1101's colours. Undertiago (talk) 00:37, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@Undertiago The page is now semi-protected, so upload it while you have the chance. 98.213.225.105 00:14, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

It isn't semi-protected, an user called "Túrelio" changed the protection settings on March 10, making the administrators the only ones allowed to overwrite the file. Undertiago (talk) 02:39, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

@Undertiago As of 12:30 UTC, 16 April 2023, this file is now semi-protected, so update the colors while you have the chance. 98.213.225.105 12:31, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't think you are understanding. I can edit the page of the file as it is semi-protected, but other thing I can't (and is what I want to do) is overwriting the file, as it can only be edited by administrators. See the protection log. Undertiago (talk) 20:41, 16 April 2023 (UTC)

@Undertiago: , I think we must restore the previous version as soon as possible because you earlier mentioned the flag in knowindia being different that pmoindia logo. But I think we should prefer the less darker one because we can clearly see Indian flag in the official page of Government of India in its national section page. Even ministry of culture posted an article named Evolution of the Indian National Flag on July 2022 with lighter colours. Even look at the logo of Aazadi Ka Amrit Mahotsav, or look at the flag of India at head of the Official website of President of India. Ku423winz1 (talk) 09:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

@Ku423winz1: The Karnataka Khadi Gramodyoga Samyukta Sangha (KKGSS) is the responsible for the manufacturing of the indian flags, and if you search for their work, you'll see that all of their flags have the darker version of the colours: [2] [3] [4], there are tons of similar images which you'll find by searching. I say all of that because I think sourcing real flags is more practical than sourcing web designs that could've been created by just a designer with no idea of a "colour standard", besides that even those designs have a similar color range, they still have different hex codes which will give more discussion on which hex to use. Undertiago (talk) 21:42, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

@Undertiago: , relying on khadi flags made by KKGSS is not preferable. They use different colours different times, as you can see they are using the lighter ones in these cases [5] [6] [7]. They obviously produce the flags based on the colour provided to them by the government, and it is different in different times. Rather I would recommend to rely on official websites describing Indian flag I provided earlier, which uses lighter versions. Especially the Knowindia one, which describes the official flag. Ku423winz1 (talk) 15:41, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Agree; the darker saffron is clearly a subtle move by current PM to assert subtle control, reshape the country in his ideological image 173.32.210.189 16:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

That's incorrect. The khadi maps which are approved by BIS use darker colors 223.191.31.136 12:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

@Ku423winz1 The photos of flags you provided have the same tones, especially [5] and [7], and are considered to be "darker colours" so I don't know what do you refer to when saying "They use different colours different times". Undertiago (talk) 23:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

The official color details are provided in this India govt document. That should end all discussion about this stuff

https://archive.org/details/gov.in.is.1.1968/page/n2/mode/1up 2405:201:8025:50CC:C410:9694:2B10:5614 06:06, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

The document fails when describing either using illuminant C 10° or C 2°, if we want to convert the XYZ values into sRGB, for India saffron the hexadecimal will be aprox. #FF7044; and for India green, #6DB989; the navy blue isn't specified and digitally speaking, we should ignore the white. The result of adding those colours to the flag will be this: [1], it clearly doesn't look like in real life. Undertiago (talk) 23:22, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

hello Undertiago, you have not changed values to orange to lighter shade as told by Khadi India as 165C, 349C as previously consented. Swapnil1101 (talk) 04:03, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

My apologies @Swapnil1101, after your message I left Wikimedia Commons for a couple of months, I will now request an unprotection to overwrite the file. Undertiago (talk) 05:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

@Swapnil1101 I have the letter but I better send the request tomorrow as it is late in my country and I don't want the file to be unprotected for many hours with the possibility of vandalism. Undertiago (talk) 05:42, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Edit request

{{Edit request}} Please insert [[Category:Valued images of India]] as it is a valued image. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done —‍Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 14 January 2024 (UTC)