File talk:Victorian era post-mortem family portrait of parents with their deceased daughter.jpg

Possibly inaccurate and erroneous definition & caption

I think we should discuss about this media's Caption and Definition. I think there are a few evidences in it, that they could both be inaccurate and erroneous.

We can't assume that it is a post mortem picture beyond doubt, and also this misinformation could lead to several incorrect pages referring to the media as example of Post Mortem photography. I'm very fond of the post mortem photography subject, and for sure this media has been circulating associated to it for a while, but in my opinion is not related. It looks to me much more as an example of pre-mortem photography: the parents aware of the severe illness of their daughter may have called a photographer to take a last picure with her. And the daughter may have passed away a few moments after shooting this photo. Pre-mortem photography was also common in theese days.

Most of the explanations often given with this photography, to ensure the condition of death of the daughter are the blurriness of the parents compared to the stillness of the girl, completely on focus. Well this is partially true: this just proof that the parents were much more subjet to move around a their dying beloved daugher, while she was not. She may has been simply so weak that she could not move very much. For sure they look also dressed in mourning, or similar: because of the totally sad circumstances in which the photo was being taken.

On the other hand there are two peculiar evidences of her beeing much more probably alive in this picture:

1. the gaze and facial expression: she is looking in the same direction of her mother, focusing on something in the upper right over the objective and not in camera as her father. Dead people can't stare (edit: in that peculiar way): if she was really dead it would have been much more harder to (edit) coordinate her eye's position to her mother's, as they are in this picture (edit: removed uncorrect statement). Dead bodies can actually look like they are staring, because eyes and iris position sort of fixes in the position adopted while dying, and the position may result enforced when rigor mortis occurs. Anyway they would have look much more innatural: they could have been focusing to a much more close distance, or longer; it would be possible but extremely improbable that mother and daughter were looking in the same exact spot, if she was dead. For clarification: in early stages of death also many changes can involve position, size and shape of the pupil inside the iris, cloudness of the cornea may also occur. Pupils can also change in asymmetrical manner in evolving with different timing from primary flaccidity to rigor mortis. Also the facial expression is a bit too tense, showing too much of her suffering state. If dead the whole expression would have been more relaxed, and the jaw could have drop a bit more open.
3. the pose of the head and the hands: a dead body does not stay up as this, even in this resting sitting position. The head in this picture is not backing on anyting, but the seat back that barely reaches the height of the nape. If she were dead the head would fall forward or backward, and it would not have been folding so little on itself to the right like this, but much more: instead she was managing to keep his head raised, although not without difficulties. Similar to the position of the neck, the hands look tightened one another to much firmly, as they would not have been if she was dead. (edit) To be repositioned, dressed, combed, a dead body should necessarily not be in a rigor mortis status: it should be more in a status called primary flaccidity. In this status limbs and extremities, faces and skin, usually look released, flabby, squashy: in this photo they all are surely not looking very tense, but still their appareance is enought tense to let me doubt of the post mortem status of the body.

If the Caption and Description are proven inaccurate, than we should maybe discuss also on how correct the related pages. Bezdomnyj82 (talk) 22:25, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
(edited) --Bezdomnyj82 (talk) 13:24, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

I happened to be present at a possible crime scene under investigation once. The recently deceased (drug-related sudden passaway) 20+something female looked better than many cotemporaries of the same age. Though her pose and look was a little bit unusual (she was sitting on the bed,) if I haven't been informed professionally that she is dead (we received a call and knew already for sure,) I'd never thought she is dead. Doesn't mean that it always going on like that, though sometimes it actually does. ВоенТех (talk) 14:55, 10 July 2018 (UTC)