File talk:WekillforFUN.gif
Categories
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I restored Category:Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush as it is relevant since the image shows both Ariel Sharon and George W Bush. // Liftarn (talk) 10:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- I removed it. the other cats are enought. Yonidebest Ω Talk 10:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- So you're Drork's meatpuppet now? Since both are in the image the category is relevant. // Liftarn (talk) 11:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- I pretty much dislike Drork. Putting that aside, I agree with him in this matter. a cat called "Caricatures of Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush" would be OK. Please do not add the category until the discussion is finished. If you keep adding the cat, I will request the image be protected. Yonidebest Ω Talk 11:18, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- Until we get enough images to need a category for Caricatures of Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush then the cartoon should be listed in the parent category, i.e. in Category:Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush. // Liftarn (talk) 11:42, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- The image is a caricature, it is categorized as a caricature. Now, you want to categorize it as a portrait in order to give it extra-visibility. This is not about categorization, this is about pushing a political POV. Drork (talk) 10:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- I didn't notice the word "portrait" in the category name. — Mike.lifeguard 14:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- I don't see how proper categorisation is "pushing a political POV". However, removing valid categories because you don't like the image is. // Liftarn (talk) 18:37, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- When you place a caricature of a person allegedly saying "I kill for fun" next to his real portrait, you imply, quite strongly, that you endorse the opinion expressed by the caricature. This is the way our human society works, and I don't invent anything here. Now, if there is a special category for caricatures of a certain person, then caricature should go there, and real portraits should go elsewhere, most reasonably to the category named after him. Drork (talk) 05:10, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I repeat thet the medium used to create the image is of no relevance. At least not until there are som many images that it needs more subcats. // Liftarn (talk) 17:37, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- When you place a caricature of a person allegedly saying "I kill for fun" next to his real portrait, you imply, quite strongly, that you endorse the opinion expressed by the caricature. This is the way our human society works, and I don't invent anything here. Now, if there is a special category for caricatures of a certain person, then caricature should go there, and real portraits should go elsewhere, most reasonably to the category named after him. Drork (talk) 05:10, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- The image is a caricature, it is categorized as a caricature. Now, you want to categorize it as a portrait in order to give it extra-visibility. This is not about categorization, this is about pushing a political POV. Drork (talk) 10:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
- Until we get enough images to need a category for Caricatures of Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush then the cartoon should be listed in the parent category, i.e. in Category:Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush. // Liftarn (talk) 11:42, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- I pretty much dislike Drork. Putting that aside, I agree with him in this matter. a cat called "Caricatures of Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush" would be OK. Please do not add the category until the discussion is finished. If you keep adding the cat, I will request the image be protected. Yonidebest Ω Talk 11:18, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
- So you're Drork's meatpuppet now? Since both are in the image the category is relevant. // Liftarn (talk) 11:12, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
What is "anti-zionism"?
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The primary meaning would be "opposition to the formation or existence of a Jewish state in Palestine". That is not what this cartoon is about. This cartoon may fit the second sentence of en:Anti-Zionism: "Sometimes the term Anti-Zionism used to describe opposition to specific Israeli government policies." But then any critical cartoon would fit here, and any anti-government-rally in Israel, so that would be completely meaningless. That definition would make everybody an antizionist! /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 11:49, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- So, according to your reasoning, anti-zionism does not exist, at least in the cartoons of Latuff. Well, that is pushing our tolerance to intelectual dishonesty too far! I have restored the categorty, of course! -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 12:36, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
- That is a personal attack! I do not really know what Latuff's ideas are about Israel, but opposing the occupation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank is not antizionism. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 12:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Criticising some specific Israeli action is not anti-Zionism nor antisionism. Critisicm of Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush is not anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism. // Liftarn (talk) 13:03, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Polls on categorization
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I would like to propose three different polls to sound the opinion of people on the categorization of this image, in the light of COM:CAT. Categorizing Latuff's cartoons has been the source of countless dramas, and some victims, and it is time to reach a consensus and take a reasonable decision. With these polls I'm addressing three different categories: Anti-Semitism, Anti-Zionism and Anti-Americanism. Please feel free to add others. The questions will be in the form: Do you think that Category: Xxx is adequate for classifying this image?. Please give your opinion using the 
Support and 
Oppose templates, and keep your comments short. Long comments belong to the discussion sections above. Pertinent sources to the three concepts are w:Anti-Semitism, w:Anti-Zionism and w:Anti-Americanism. Alvesgaspar (talk) 07:48, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
Anti-Semitism
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Question -- Do you think that Category: Anti-Semitism is adequate for classifying this image?
- Oppose any form of POV cartoon categorization: suggest to use "semitisme related cartoons" or "Zionisme related cartoons" --Foroa (talk) 08:44, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose as there is no antisemitism pictured. Just criticism of two political leaders. // Liftarn (talk)
- Oppose -- As above -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 15:48, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Anti-Zionism
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Question -- Do you think that Category: Anti-Zionism is adequate for classifying this image?
- Oppose any form of POV cartoon categorization: suggest to use "semitisme related cartoons" or "Zionisme related cartoons" --Foroa (talk) 08:44, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose as it is criticism of a (former) political leader of Israel, not the existence of the country itself. // Liftarn (talk) 09:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Support -- Because the cartoon illustrates opposition to the policies or behaviour of the state of Israel ([1]) -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 15:48, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose - Opposing something your government does doesn't not make you opposed to your country. I'm not going to go around voting on all these cartoon talk pages, so please take this as appling to the rest. Thanks. Rocket000 (talk) 16:38, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Anti-Americanism
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Question -- Do you think that Category: Anti-Americanism is adequate for classifying this image?
- Oppose any form of POV cartoon categorization: suggest to use "Americanism related cartoons" --Foroa (talk) 08:44, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose as it it criticism of W Bush, not the country as such. // Liftarn (talk)
- Support -- Because the cartoon illustrates opposition to the external policies or behaviour of America ([2]) -- Alvesgaspar (talk) 15:49, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush
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Question -- Do you think that Category:Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush is adequate for classifying this image?
- Support since both persons are pictured. // Liftarn (talk)
- Support is this a serious question? Yes, the main subject should be categorized in the matching category. Rocket000 (talk) 16:41, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
- Oppose, but not strongly. I think Category:Cartoons about George W. Bush and Ariel Sharon would be better. --Avenue (talk) 00:28, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
- Support (in the absence of Category:Cartoons about George W. Bush and Ariel Sharon) Railwayfan2005 (talk) 19:16, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
