User talk:Anatiomaros/Archive 1

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Anatiomaros!

First steps tutorial Our first steps tour and our frequently asked questions will help you a lot after registration. They explain how to customize the interface (for example the language), how to upload files and our basic licensing policy (Wikimedia Commons only accepts free content). You don't need technical skills in order to contribute here. Be bold when contributing and assume good faith when interacting with others. This is a wiki. Getting help More information is available at the community portal. You may ask questions at the help desk, village pump or on IRC channel #wikimedia-commons (webchat). You can also contact an administrator on their talk page. If you have a specific copyright question, ask at the copyright village pump.

Goodies, tips, and tricks Put Babel boxes on your user page so others know what languages you can speak and indicate your graphic abilities. You can find the files you have uploaded in your Uploads. Please sign your name on Talk pages by typing ~~~~. To link to an image page without embedding the image, type: [[:File:Foo.jpg]], which produces: File:Foo.jpg. You may enable gadgets (custom features) for your account. There are several tools to upload files. Have you edited Wikipedia before? This guide might be useful. Made a mistake? Do you want to have a file renamed or moved? Use the move link and wait for an authorized user to rename it. Do you want to have your recently uploaded picture removed? Tag it as {{speedy|reason here}}. For more information read the deletion guidelines.

Black Lake lake

Hi Anatiomaros. I unmerged Category:Dulyn Reservoir and Category:Llyn Dulyn as there are probably two lakes with that name and images:

• Category:Dulyn Reservoir has an article at en:Llyn Dulyn and probably cy:Llyn Dulyn (Carneddau).
• File:Llyn Dulyn.jpg might be the one in cy:Llyn Dulyn (Rhinogydd). The file could also have its coordinates wrong. If both points are correct, we should rename the category. -- User:Docu at 03:50, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Docu, and thanks for pointing that out. I'd forgotten about the other one - I was blasting my way through the categories and should have stopped to think. You are right about the two lakes' identity (above). I'd suggest we either follow the 'cy' designations or go for the counties, e.g. *Llyn Dulyn, Conwy; not too bothered which but "Dulyn Reservoir" is not the normal designation for the lake in the Carneddau, a natural lake which is used as a reservoir. The Wales categories are a real mess - glad to see another editor helping to sort them but we could do with a dozen! PS I know the name sounds a bit bizzare, but that is the form usually used; I rather suspect that dulyn might not actually be formed from the obvious du+llyn (although it certainly doesn't refer to the city of Dulyn!). Regards, Anatiomaros (talk) 17:32, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I will try to help out with the llyns, but I'm glad you are double checking some of the categories I created.

I moved the two categories as you suggested. If the one at Carneddau is the main one, we could also move that one to Category:Llyn Dulyn. -- User:Docu at 07:13, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. It may be best to leave them as they are for now, although the Carneddau lake is probably the best known. One of the weaknesses of a wiki category system is that we can't have disambiguation pages! By the way, I've been creating *Lakes of... categories for the counties, e.g. Category:Lakes of Conwy County Borough. I guess there might be an argument for putting all the individual Welsh lakes categories in the *Lakes of Wales parent category but they should definitely be in a local category. I note this is a general problem with many of the Wales files and categories, e.g. an editor will place a church or some such place in the *Churches in Wales category but not think of putting it in the relevant county category (thus creating yet more work!). The same goes for categories which have been created and placed only in the parent Wales cat but not in the local one; seems odd to me that somebody could create the category *Denbigh Castle and not think of putting it in the *Denbigh cat or even the *Denbighshire one... Anatiomaros (talk) 01:14, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I moved a few lake categories into the subcategories you created for counties. Initially I had hoped we'd get them into the "water bodies" categories when uploading, but that didn't quite work out. In the meantime, I think most images of one lake should categorized in the same category. I tried to add alternate names as redirects and in descriptions. The category name I started out with may not be ideal. If you think one or the other should be renamed, don't hesitate. I can have my bot do it.

BTW Category:Denbigh Castle was created in 2006, Category:Denbigh only in 2009! For buildings, it's generally easy to pick the locality it should go with, but, e.g. for lakes it's more complicated. One lake shouldn't usually be a subcategory of several localities. Personally I generally prefer to do just one or two steps at a time. -- User:Docu at 00:10, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

These are good points. I guess I'm just feeling a bit frustrated because of the sheer volume of files involved - and the thought that there are many more to come. I spend most of my time, usually, on Welsh Wikipedia (where I'm a sysop). I'd been looking forward to getting images for all our Wales locations and buildings but hadn't realised how much work needed doing here both in creating and sorting the categories and also finding the files themselves (see Category:Gwynedd, for instance which includes a large number of images belonging in Conwy and Anglesey!). Ah well, I suppose I should be more patient. The big thing is that they are here or on their way, all 1.5 million of them (ye Gods!) : so I hope you don't think I'm being too critical as this is greatly appreciated and will transform many of our articles. Indeed, some of the images I've found have already inspired me to create new articles that I might not otherwise have done. And thanks for the offer of bot assistance. I'll let you know if I something needs doing (Just a thought - could the bot recognise a file that is categoried 'Gwynedd' and which is also in a town/village cat for Conwy or Anglesey? Seems there's a few of them about. If the redundant Gwynedd cat could be simply removed it would greatly reduce the backlog there and later on we can sort through the Conwy/Anglesey town/village cats for placing the files in other relevant categories. There is also a county category which should ideally be renamed, Category:Wrexham county borough > Category:Wrexham County Borough for consistency; a tedious manual task.) Anatiomaros (talk) 01:29, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

/unindent/ The point about Gwynedd, you might want to bring this up on Commons:Batch uploading/Geograph‎ with one or two samples. Normally, the upload should have taken care of that (not adding parent and subcategories). I recall that it was mentioned that the scope of "Gwynedd" was outdated.

Personally, I sometimes add subcategories of lakes manually first and then have my bot remove the parent category in a series. Works fairly well.

For Wrexham, I added {{Move}} as possibly some bots rely on the current spelling. This leaves some time to adapt.

Btw, you might want to try the image search tool for Wikipedia articles lacking images (e.g. [1]). In the past I used this for lake articles in the en language version. It works even if not all images are in the "ideal" category. -- User:Docu at 17:39, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

• Thank you Docu. FIST is a very useful tool indeed - I've used it for lakes and mountains so far and will try other categories tomorrow, if I have time. Cheers, Anatiomaros (talk) 00:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Foul eggs

I believe you have a strong point about this image, after all, the human babies hatching out of eggs imply a sharing of human and avian attributes, clearly they are implying that this couple copulated and produced some kind of deific interbreed. Many would term it obscene, I don't know how far down the line we would have to wait for some random deletionist-happy person to put it on the block, so discussing it in preparation and establishing artistic merit may perhaps be useful. Ty (talk) 03:15, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, Ty. I could have picked many more examples even while limiting myself to Western "classical" tradition, including the Bible, of course, not just those "perverted" Ancient Greeks and Romans. The virus is spreading. Take a look at this recent edit, for example. I agree with what you say about placing some sort of 'pre-emptive' rational for keeping an image on its talk page, but the problem is where to start? This whole situation is ridiculous. Who exactly decides what is or is not "pornography"? A picture of a woman in a bikini is "obscene" in some jurisdictions. So how can a single person - whether it's JW, myself or anybody else - decide that? And in any case these are works of art which have been deleted - three times in succession in the case of one file - not "self-made pornography". I'd also suggest that we all place as many potential candidates for deletion as possible on our watch lists. For some categories it might be an idea to save a copy of the file to your disk as well. I hope this gets resolved quickly or the damage to the entire Wikipedia project will be considerable. Best wishes, Anatiomaros (talk) 18:38, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

PS According to the legend, Zeus (the Swan) did indeed have sex with Leda (who was probably underage as well, by the standards of most modern legal systems!) and then "hatched" the eggs containing the Dioscuri (Castor and Pollux) and Helen (of Troy). And I'd better not mention the young girl and the bull :~) Anatiomaros (talk) 18:38, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

PPS I've made a start with this as the file was nominated for Speedy today... Anatiomaros (talk) 18:59, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

• I didn't think of adding flowers or grass, I guess they didn't stand out and I didn't know if there were categories for them. Feel free to add if you like :) The reason I am apprehensive is I am not sure if 'grass' would aptly describe it, the lush plantlife that would be underfoot looks rather diverse and weedy, and while on closer examination I see things that look flowerish, I am not entirely sure what breed of flower they might be. Would it be appropriate to ask in the category talk page? Anyway I think the deer's cool, too bad there's not subcats for different kinds of deer like they have with the English Bulldog. TY© (talk) 13:30, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Category:Wales

Hi! Hope you like what you see next time you visit that category. I used Multichills bot to help categorizing (it is still running at the moment). I saw your note at Commons:Batch_uploading/Geograph#Anglesey.2C_Gwynedd_and_Palestine. Thank you for helping out. I fear that bot can still not fix everything 100 % right but I still hope it is better than fixing all manually :-) --MGA73 (talk) 20:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow, great improvement! Thanks. I was getting down to the "awkward customers" - labeled 'Field' etc - and beginning to give up as they were often of marginal interest and very time-consuming. I'll try to whittle through the remaining files - slowly! - over the next week or so. Oh, and you're welcome, of course! Anatiomaros (talk) 20:43, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

PS I've been working on some of the backlog of files without categories and just came across this: Category:Media needing categories as of 5 September 2008. It contains 6,744 uncategoried files! The two next cats for September 2008 are not much better and many of the files are just impossible/useless or possible copy-vios. By comparison the *Wales and *Gwynedd cats are a piece of cake... :~) Anatiomaros (talk) 21:11, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes I was afraid that the amount would make you give up so I thought it would be a good place to start the bot. Even with a bot it will take weeks (months?) to work on all images and still there is no guarentee that all images will end up in the right places. If you notice other categories like Wales that could need a bot to push images down then you are welcome to leave me a note.

Oh yes the uncategorized images... I worked on these some months ago but has forgotten all about them. Perhaps I should try to run a bot to see if some images can be categorized. Do you work on a specific date? --MGA73 (talk) 09:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer. There are quite a few of the Wales county categories that need working on: I think *Gwynedd still has a lot of unsorted files, for instance. There are other places where the files are not in the correct county. I've been concentrating on north and mid Wales as I know those areas best and can sometimes categorise "on sight", but I've found considerable confusion in the south-east Wales counties. One example is *Blaenau Gwent. This is a small and very urbanised county borough and yet it is full of images of fields, hllls and farms. Seems most of them belong in neighbouring Powys and Monmouthshire (the old pre-1974 Monmouthshire included most of SE Wales, perhaps that explains it - but why would the bot category logic be based on that?).

Re: Uncategorised. I've really only been selecting at random but concentrating on the earlier dates. Some aren't too bad ("only" a 100 or so), but others are just awful and are so off-putting that few of us are going to feel like going through them manually. It's something I turn to for half an hour sometimes for a change - and a challenge! - but there are just too many files: even if we had say 20 editors at work it would still take many months just to clear a single year, if indeed it is possible to find categories for them all, which I doubt. Anatiomaros (talk) 16:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Just tried on the old categories with uncategorized images. Not much luck :-(

As for the Geograph images I will try to run it at some of the Wales subcategories tomorrow (?). Then we can see if it is any help. --MGA73 (talk) 22:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Running bot in Category:Gwynedd now. It started with 993 images - lets see what happens :-) --MGA73 (talk) 20:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

A few hours later and almost half have gone. Great! Too busy with Real Life and Welsh Wikipedia to do much here today but I'll check again tomorrow. Wales cat almost empty of files as well ; I'll try to find a home for the few left tomorrow. Diolch yn fawr (Thank you very much), Anatiomaros (talk) 23:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Good to hear :-) The images end up in categories like Category:Images from Geograph needing category review as of 27 May 2010 (most of the images in this category are related to Wales) when the bot has changed them. Perhaps you could spend some time looking at some of the images to see if categories look ok now click link in "The categories of this image should be checked. Check them now!" when you have checked the images. That way bot will not work on the images in the future if it for some reason should "find" the images again. That way you could also tell us if it looks ok or if there is something we should try to fix. Suggestions should perhaps be added to Commons:Batch_uploading/Geograph so that Multichill and others will also see it. --MGA73 (talk) 11:00, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I've just cleared all the remaining files from category *Wales. The others (:Category:Images from Geograph needing category review as of 27 May 2010) will have to wait as there are so many of them, but of the ones I checked the categories are fairly good although there were examples of unneeded parent cats e.g. *Churches in the United Kingdom. But then I only checked a few of the easy ones...! Definitely a long-term project. Anatiomaros (talk) 16:48, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the notice. Sometimes unneded parent categories are not removed because of a missing "link" between subcategories and mother categories. If the error can be found then bot might be able to fix the problems. --MGA73 (talk) 18:51, 28 May 2010 (UTC)