Open main menu

Previous years discussions.
2018 >> 2017 >> 2016 >> 2015 >> 2014 >> 2013 >>


Yet another map requestEdit

Extended content

Hi Goran_tek-en, How are you? You did a bundle of maps like this one: File:Chart 9 German Radio Intelligence Operations in Southern Russia 1941-42.svg last year, which were excellent. I have about 12 or 13, this time there are for the Luftwaffe signal intelligence service. There are not anywhere near as complex, mostly flight patterns and unit withdrawal routes. This is an example: [1] page 42. I think it will need decoded, that I can do. They seem to have been done on inked paper, the blue paper that plans that used to be on, and then transferred to the document. So they are slightly blurred, but it can be decoded, after looking at it for a few minutes. The rest are all of a muchness. I can take them out of document and join them up and present at the Graphics lab as before, with attached info for each one, unless you want them put somewhere else. Thanks Scope creep (talk) 13:12, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Would you want the raw maps on Commons?. Scope creep (talk) 13:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Hi, I can help you with that. It's very helpful if you can extract them and add all the necessary information included sources. It seems as you have a google account so you can put them on drive so I can download them. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:23, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: I have a google drive, I will need your email to share them per [2]]. Probably better to email me, and I will take it from there. I will be a couple of days to add in the info. Some of the image fairly blurry, so it'll add a file for every image, with the source and info for out of focus text. The image are public domain. Same kind of documents as the last time. Scope creep (talk) 22:17, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Can you provide me with the source/s? --Goran tek-en (talk) 12:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en:, I have emailed them to you. If you need individual pages, forward me a message, and I will create a list. Scope creep (talk) 15:25, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: I have started with 181-1 and in the txt document for that I can't see a source?
@Goran tek-en:, I think that is cracking. That one would be page 1a of IF-181. I am assuming that is the source? Scope creep (talk) 16:05, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep:I will need the following;

  • Name of the file
  • Description
  • Category/ies at commons

to be able to upload it at commons. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:16, 1 December 2018 (UTC) Name: Fixed Signals stations of the Reichswehr Description: Fixed H-Stations in the Reichswehr in 1924 Categories: Military history of Germany during World War I, Signals intelligence of World War I.Scope creep (talk) 16:30, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: The two categories you gave me does not exist on commons so I need new ones. Uploaded file Fixed Signals stations of the Reichswehr Description --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:45, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en:, I'm not that au fait with Wikipedia Commons category. I will do a wee search over the next 2 days and find or possibly create a category. Scope creep (talk) 17:57, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: There is something wrong with the name in the legend. It doesn't sit on the screen properly and the end of it, is sitting off the image to the right. Scope creep (talk) 20:47, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Here is the main category for WWI.
I have uploaded a new version but it takes some time for the preview to be updated. There is a lot of problems with fonts in svg files. I'm using Liberation Sans which should work well but still there is problems with the different png previews which are created. Here Help:SVG#Fonts_/_text there is some information about this but it's nothing you have to read, just want to show that there is problems. I'm doing my best to have space around text but it's impossible to not run into problems some times. I'm a graphic worker and it takes other types of knowledges to be able to avoid this, if it's even possible, I'm not sure as it also changes over time and depends on so many things. But of course I always try to get it to work. --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:41, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: I've had a look at it. It is a pretty handsome font, very modern, a bit like Verdana on Word. I think it is the ideal font, and it would be close I would have choosen, clean and modern. I've read that text. I know what you mean. I guess it is a case of trying it and see. I have changed the category to Military intelligence in World War I. It is the closest I can find. There is not much in the way of choice. I have a couple of improvements. The name should be Fixed Signals stations of the Reichswehr but I can change once it is finalised. The other one, is the cased Signals in the legend. It doesnt look right. I known I specified, sorry it is late in the day :) but it doesnt look right, lowercase it to signals. Apart from the font spacing it is perfect. Scope creep (talk) 16:26, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Signals changed. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:39, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: Just looking. Thats Done. Scope creep (talk) 18:07, 2 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: #181-2-1 --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en:

That's good, apart from name that is:

Legend in document:Luftwaffe signals organisation, summer of 1939
Name of the file: Luftwaffe signals organisation, summer of 1939
Description: Luftwaffe signals intelligence organisation before the start of World War II. Image from IF-181 p.18 of [3]
Category/ies at commons: Category:Military intelligence in World War II

Scope creep (talk) 19:01, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: The category you provided is not correct.
It's really frustrating with that the png preview is not correct. To me it's worse now than what it has been before. File:Luftwaffe signals organisation, summer of 1939.svg --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:01, 3 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: #181-3-1.

  • For me the information texts ar pushed into it self and I think that's because of the lifted letters "th" etc. This is on the server where I'm showing my drafts. We have a svg-checker at commons but unfortunately that is not running exactly the same library for showing svg-files as the rest is so it's not giving the exact true result. Anyway here is a screen print of how it looks there, #181-3-1 screen print. So that is not correct either. If we have the same problems when it's uploaded I will fix the lifted letters then in some way.
  • I have a problem with Petsamo, today it's in Russia but according to image 181-3 it was in Finland. Was the border different then or has it moved, so I know what to change. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:45, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: I will check the category, and the location. I assumed there would be a WW2 version of the WW1 Military history category. Back in a sec. Scope creep (talk) 17:10, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Re: Petsamo, between 1941 and 1944, it was part of Finland, before it was handed in settlement to the Soviet Union, hence since the map is within that period, it is Finland. Scope creep (talk) 17:41, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Re: Category is : Military intelligence in World War II is the closest I can find. I'll add this in. Scope creep (talk) 17:44, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: OK I will adjust the border, anything else to change, correct. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en:, Perfect.

Legend in document:Luftwaffe signals organisation in Norway, middle of 1942
Name of the file: Luftwaffe signals organisation in Norway, middle of 1942
Description: Luftwaffe signals intelligence organisation in Norway in the middle of 1942. Image from IF-181 p.19a of [17]
Category/ies at commons: Military intelligence in World War II

Scope creep (talk) 18:04, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: You really have to check the uploaded file File:Luftwaffe signals organisation in Norway, middle of 1942.svg as I both had to redo the basemap to get a valid code and to change the small lifted letters th and rd to get the text to work. I can't make them work as text and I'm not to happy to make that into outline (no text info). If you can't accept it like this that is what I have to do if so. --Goran tek-en (talk) 19:27, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: I know when you post to me, they are at a resolution of 675 × 960 pixels, and when I put them on the article as thumbs at 150pixels wide, the resolution is 421 × 599 pixels, and seem to push the text at that resolution. At the original size, the text is excellent. Is it a case it a different font on the German Radio Intelligence Operations during World War II image. Back with a second comment.Scope creep (talk) 23:40, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Assuming the Liberation Sans is open source, free as in beer, is it not possible to embed it in the SVG. I guess it is not the solution it make the images huge. Scope creep (talk) 23:50, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Found this, post vectorisation [4] Scope creep (talk) 23:58, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en:, I've noticed that 181-3 is now rendering fine, on the Luftwaffe page at Luftnachrichten Abteilung 350 in the Section 5 History of operations in the west. It looks perfect and renders the text perfect, while the previous two don't know. When you look at the first two full sizes, fully expanded, they look perfect, and even on the meta details page, they look perfect. I suspect it is a resource problem at my end. I tend to work with a ton of open windows in Firefox, it could be a resource problem when too many windows are open. I now have eight windows open on a 15.6 inch, 8gb, i7 laptop using 1.2gb of memory. Last night it used about 4gb of memory, plus a ton of other stuff open, email, adobe reader with several docs open, office and so on. Now with more than 50% of memory available, it renders perfectly. Scope creep (talk) 11:28, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: When I look at your article at #5 the thumbs doesn't look correct but that is a problem all over the hole of Wikimedia and nothing I can control. When I click on a thumb view the image doesn't totally correct, at this page I get a magnifying glass and clicking on that gives me a picture at the right size and there everything looks fine.
The post you found is about putting text on curve (any line) which doesn't work. You have to turn into what I call outline, no font info. It becomes like a drawing and then it works.
I'm not sure even including the font in the svg would make it work, it's nothing I have read about anywhere on Wikimedia. The problems is with rendering the png images and exactly how that is done is nothing I have any knowledge of. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: Yip. If the outline is what you think we need do, then we should do it. I think the images so far are perfect, and perfectly illustrate the point that is spoken about. I'm happy with that. I think we should just move on. When the meta details page is open, they are fine. I think it is worth move on. 17:16, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Scope creep (talk • contribs) 17:16, 5 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: #181-5-1. --Goran tek-en (talk) 11:45, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Legend in document:Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1940
Name of the file: Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1940
Description: Luftwaffe signals intelligence organisation in the west, indicating the types of signals that are intercepted per location. Image from IF-181 p.24a of [5] Category/ies at commons: Military intelligence in World War II

I don't think it needs the aggregate figure of men in the top left hand corner, I can put that in the caption, and think it is described in the strength tables for each unit. It is perfect. Scope creep (talk) 15:41, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: File:Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1940.svg Your article is really massive, you must have worked/researched a lot for that. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:36, 6 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: #181-7-1. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:18, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Goran tek-en: I came across a whole bunch of NSA, CIA and British documents on the Luftwaffe signal services about 3 years ago, while doing a search for General der Nachrichtenaufklärung just now adding it in the last sixth months. Its a lot bigger than I thought, but I do a wee paragraph every couple of day, it seems to add up, although in the last few weeks, adding a few paragraphs a day, to try and knock on the head. I enjoy doing, certainly in the short term, but after a while, it becomes a bane. I think after this sprint, I will leave it at a logical end so it is able to be read, until March or April next year.

If you take a look at the General der Nachrichtenaufklärung, you will notice there are no maps in it. I know for a fact that reason for that is during late 1943, am RAF bombing raid in northern France blew up some 80 tons worth of documents that were owned by the GDNA. It was their archive made up of maps, directory, card indexes and so on, their library of documents that could be used to help in decipher and solving messages and extracting intelligence from them. When it was blown up, it was a severe blow to them, and it stopped them in the tracks, and hence no maps from them made it into German archives after the war. Unlike the Luftwaffe who were geographically distributed, lots of their maps made it into the archives. I'm assuming that anyway.

I have checked that map. It is perfect. I guess using the same category. Description is:

Geographical locations of Luftwaffe signals intelligence intercept outstation locations in the west of Europe, in the middle of 1941. from IF-181 p.28a of [6] Scope creep (talk) 08:15, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: File:Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1941.svg
  • Petsamo is nothing I can find in Norway but there is a place in today's Russia. So I wonder if the arrow north north east on the source is indicating this? Do you want this arrow or some text explaining or other. --Goran tek-en (talk) 15:43, 7 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: #181-10-1. Did you see about Petsamo above. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:43, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en: I will take a look. Scope creep (talk) 23:24, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Yip in Fig 7. Might be a mountain. 23:37, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi Goran tek-en, It is the Pechengsky District, specifically at 69°33'38N; 31°13'40E, and old Luftwaffe airfield. Is the possible to add a change to the last map, and this one add it, without too much work. It would be nice to see it. Figure 13, has them a Kirkenes, also at the very top right, is where the Luftwaffe got pushed back too. It was stupid I never noticed that. Scope creep (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: We have to consider a few things;
  • If I add the needed part in it's correct position the map will be almost twice in it's height, which to me is not good. Most screen are viewed in landscape and around 800 px and more in height. So to be able to view a map like that you would have to scale down the map and then it would be hard to read the text. It would be the same effect if I reduced the "higher" map to 1000 px.
  • We have sources 7, 10, 13, 14 which use the same base map with locations which is not a part of it and we have to fix them also. So this draft 181-10-2 is "one" solution to this. I can add this to 7, 10, 13, 14 like this draft. To have a wider map is not a problem as most screens are in landscape. --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:02, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
{ping|Goran tek-en}} Afternoon. Yip, That's cool. That's a proper fix. A proper cartographic solution. I never realised it was so far out. Norway is much bigger than I thought, even though it has been shrunk. It's even further out on the Fig 10 map, so far out the arrow wouldn't fit on the page. It a good solution.

We are now of part of the document, part 2. I think that is biggest diagrams almost done. So it now at Name: Geographical locations for Luftwaffe signals unit in west Europe, middle of 1942
Location: IF-181 Seabourne Report Vol VI Part 2 at p. 35
Scope creep (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: You stated the name to "Geographical locations for Luftwaffe signals unit in west Europe, middle of 1942" but before the names has been in this format "Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1942", should you/we not stick to that? --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:40, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: Yip, I see now, I've changed the format, at some point. Yea, Leave it out. I can bung the geolocation bit in the caption. Scope creep (talk) 14:56, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Uploaded file File:Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1942.svg. I have also updated file:Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1941.svg with the extra map so you should check that one also. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:10, 8 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 181-13-1. You have to check it closely as the source has lines splitting and it's not easy to see, especially Calais.--Goran tek-en (talk) 17:05, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Goran tek-en: Some fixes

181-10 that File:Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, middle of 1942.svg

  • Oslo is knackered yh instead of th
  • Meldekopf should have a capital M.


  • Husum missing an - HF
  • Meldekopf should have a capital M.
  • Paris has stuff missing:
  • Signal's Regiment West
  • 2nd Bat. Regt. West
  • Meldekopf 2
  • Radar Intercept Centre West
  • 3rd Bat. Regt. 3
  • 14th Co. Regt.3 evaluation
  • 17th Co. Regt. 3 training

Also center into centre.

Calais seems to be only - 6th Co. Regt. West, Radar intercept. The rest seems to be ok. Scope creep (talk) 21:20, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Previous is corrected. New draft for 181-13-2.
  • To me Paris is divided into two places, "Paris" and "Bougival-La, Celle St Cloud, La Jonchere, Malmaison" and if you look at source 181 Fig 10.png it's actually two places and I have kept that in this draft also. If you don't want it will change.
  • I haven't changed everything as you wrote as I see it like this. Have look and then tell how you want it, it's up to you, you have the knowledge. --Goran tek-en (talk) 15:05, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: I think your right. I know the "Bougival-La, Celle St Cloud, La Jonchere, Malmaison" are all giant chateaux. I think I was sleeping. It looks ok. I must have been looking at the wrong diagram. Scope creep (talk) 18:29, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en:, that looks ok. Scope creep (talk) 19:56, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Uploaded file File:Luftwaffe signals organisation in the west, D-day 1944.svg --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:14, 12 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 181-14-1. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:14, 12 December 2018 (UTC

Hi @Goran tek-en: That look quite excellent. I'm not sure what a DF baseline is, but they were sure busy making them. Its perfect.Scope creep (talk) 17:36, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: I will need name and description.
Name: Luftwaffe High Frequency Direction Finding (DF) operations before D-Day, World War II.
Description: This diagram represents a number of Direction-Finding (DF) base lines that were created by the Luftwaffe, and in place before D-Day. DF baselines are imaginary lines or axis in which DF equipment of a DF network is deployed in locations on that line. Luftwaffe Signals used straight DF lines. The length of the base line indicated the net location capability value in miles, in which a DF location can be made. For example, the distance from Husum, Germany to Brest France is 716 miles, meaning that the net location capabilty is 716 miles in depth. Scope creep (talk) 16:06, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Uploaded file File:Luftwaffe High Frequency Direction Finding (DF) operations before D-Day, World War II.svg --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:01, 13 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 181-15-1, I had to guess on some of the lines. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:01, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Goran tek-en:. That is perfect.
Name: Luftwaffe Very High Frequency DF operations before D-Day, World War II.
Description: This diagram represents the organisation of a number of Luftwaffe Very High Frequency (VHF) Direction-Finding (DF) base lines that were created by the Luftwaffe, and in place before D-Day. DF baselines are imaginary lines or axis in which DF equipment of a DF network is deployed in locations on that line. Luftwaffe Signals used straight DF lines. The length of the base line indicated the net location capability value in miles, in which a DF location can be made. For example, the distance from Husum, Germany to Brest France is 716 miles, meaning that the net location capability is 716 miles in depth. Scope creep (talk) 18:57, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Uploaded file File:Luftwaffe Very High Frequency DF operations before D-Day, World War II.svg --Goran tek-en (talk) 15:52, 14 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-1-1. There is text I can't read, marked with X I'm also not sure about all the lines. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:32, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en: I see what you mean. I think this is the start of some blurred ones. Scope creep (talk) 16:43, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
It is a Primosole, and mostly Primosole Bridge. There was unit there as it was the highest point. There was a huge battle called Operation Fustian. Your location is accurate. Scope creep (talk) 17:47, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: How About Palx left of Kunawi? Is the rest OK? Then I need the usual info. --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:48, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
I need to do all the names:
Southern Italy is Gallipoli
Black Sea is Constanța with dash at the bottom of the t.
Rhodos is Rhodes
Pal with the X is Palaiochora
Portopalo is one word.
Derna is right.
Kalamaki is ok
Kunawi I need to look for it. I think it a mountain. Still looking. Scope creep (talk) 16:41, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: Kunawi seems to be genuine, it seems to be colloquial name for a place in Crete. I cant locate it, which is weird, but I found a good book ref that describes, but doesnt tell you were it is. The name is correct. I would suggest completing the diagram as described, and put in the baselines per diagram. Hope that helps. Scope creep (talk) 17:18, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: I don't understand what you mean by "put in the baselines per diagram".
Draft 184-1-2 to be checked. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:51, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: oh I see, my mistake. Nothing on it. Scope creep (talk) 18:03, 16 December 2018 (UT

It should be perfect, once the fixes are in. Name: Luftwaffe DF Networks in the Mediterranean, middle of 1942
Description: This diagram represents the organisation of a number of Luftwaffe High Frequency (HF) Direction-Finding (DF) baselines that were created by the Luftwaffe, that was in place in the eastern Mediterranean, in mid-1942. The HF DF network enabled the Luftwaffe to track Allied bombing raids in the Balkans, e.g. the Allied Liberator bombing attack on Ploiești that was sent to destroy the oil installations and infrastructure a year later on 1 July 1943.
The category is the same as before. Scope creep (talk) 18:30, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Uploaded file File:Luftwaffe DF Networks in the Mediterranean, middle of 1942.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:13, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks {{ping|Goran tek-en} Scope creep (talk) 19:26, 17 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-3-1. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:24, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Goran tek-en: That is excellent.
Name:Luftwaffe HF DF network of W-Leit 2, in the beginning of 1943.
Description: This diagram represents the organisation of a number of Luftwaffe High Frequency (HF) Direction-Finding (DF) of W-Leit 2 that were created by the Luftwaffe, that was in place in the eastern Mediterranean, in the beginning of 1943. Constructed from the diagram at p.27a
Scope creep (talk) 16:48, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Uploaded file File:Luftwaffe HF DF network of W-Leit 2, in the beginning of 1943.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:31, 19 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-4-1. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:42, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi {{@Goran tek-en: Merry Christmas! One thing to fix:
  • Poto is Noto on Sicily

I think that's it. Name:VHF and Radar Intercept Stations of W-Leit 2, at the beginning of 1943
Description: This diagram represents the organisation of a number of Luftwaffe Very High Frequency (VHF) Direction-Finding (DF) and radar stations that was in place in the eastern Mediterranean at the beginning of 1943. VHF direction finding was used to track Allied aircraft that were fitted with VHF transmitters, that were fitted in March 1942. Radar was used both for detection of aircraft and jamming of Allied ground radar.
Scope creep (talk) 19:46, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Uploaded file File:VHF and Radar Intercept Stations of W-Leit 2, at the beginning of 1943.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:00, 22 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-5-1.

Hi Goran tek-en Merry Christmas. I'm just back from a weeekend away. I will check this now. Scope creep (talk) 12:57, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
There is 3 Kalamaki's in Greece. This Kalamaki is district of Athens, in the 1940's it would have been a seperate town, and is at 37°54'37.93"N, 23°43'23.70"E . Regarding Loutsa, there is several of these, and our one is now called Artemida, East Attica. It is located at 37°57'23.59"N, 23°59'54.88"E They are across the peninsula from each other, and the way the map looks, makes them look very close. Scope creep (talk) 13:14, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
The big location is Sedes, in Thessaloniki. A former military airport. Regarding the Loutsa etc icon. Kalamaki is a DF Station. Loutsa is the circle with black dot, signalling intercept company. Scope creep (talk) 13:28, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-5-2.
Hi Goran tek-en It is the correct line on the current one. On the file:Luftwaffe DF Networks in the Mediterranean, middle of 1942.svg, it is out. Well spotted!! Scope creep (talk) 18:28, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
Nothing written about it above, I think concentrating too much on the stuff that was knackered re: that place on Crete, and I never noticed that it was knackered. Can you please use the same coord's. Quick fix I guess. Regarding the current one. One fix. Can you add Thessaloniki above sedes.

Name:Luftwaffe MF and HF DF baselines of W-Leit Southeast, autumn of 1943
Description: This diagram represents the organisation of a number of Luftwaffe Medium Frequency (MF) and High Frequency (HF) Direction-Finding (DF) baselines that were created by the Luftwaffe and placed in the eastern Mediterranean, in the autumn of 1943.
Scope creep (talk) 19:03, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: You should check file:Luftwaffe DF Networks in the Mediterranean, middle of 1942.svg now. Uploaded new file File:Luftwaffe MF and HF DF baselines of W-Leit Southeast, autumn of 1943.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 15:55, 25 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi Goran tek-en That is excellent. Both of them are now synced now per the two locations. The next one will be difficult, again due to the blurring. The diagram has a bunch of parallel lines, which are difficult to differentiate. I can give you as much help as you need, even doing an analysis of the document, to determine each line. 4 out the six are identifiable, perhaps 5 when you look at it carefully.Scope creep (talk) 18:33, 25 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: There are black dots, outline dots and big outline dots, what do they stand for? --Goran tek-en (talk) 11:56, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

I think the black dots are places. The big round empty circles, i.e. outline dots, are where Luftflotte, air fleets were located, e.g. at Frascati was where Luftflotte 2 was located. I think the outline dots are where they left. The triangles I will need to have a look in the document. If it is anything it must be the same notation used in all documents. I'll take a look. Scope creep (talk) 13:53, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep:Thanks, the triangles are peeks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:04, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi @Goran tek-en:

Big outline circles = Luftflotte 2
Triangles = VHF platoon
Black dots = Evaluation companies and HQ for W-Leit 2
Small white dot(s) = Luftwaffe Signal Corps assembly areas.

Scope creep (talk) 14:21, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

That make sense, as the HF, VHF intercept teams would be up high. Scope creep (talk) 01:23, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-7-1.
  • First I want to say that the colors I have picked is colors that is supposed to work for most of people with color viewing variations. Of course if this creates other problems for a larger other group we will have to change but I try as good as I can to make the maps work for everyone.
  • I have had a hard time to define which line is which in many cases so you will have to help me from your documentation.
E.a. I don't know if the lines with airplanes should be their own lines as I have done. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:23, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: I have been waiting for this. It is deeply cool. I'll check it. Scope creep (talk) 16:39, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Regarding the planes, better than original. I'm writing the section at the moment, with all this stuff, so I should be able to fetch a sentence each pink/purple plane route. Some fixes first, minor really.
  1. Futapass should be Futa Pass.
  2. Passo Pordoi is Pordoi Pass (just found this out)
  3. Change Luftflotte 2 to Luftflotte 2 HQ
  4. Change Special VHF of 10th Company, LNR 2 to Special VHF RT detachments of 10th Co. LNR 2
  5. Blue plan line: W-Leit 2 evaluation company moving Taormina to Frascati

Major fix: Blue dashed line not present. 17:49, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Draft 184-7-2. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:44, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Weird. Cant see it. I can see the directional arrow, which I'm assuming its the colour, a blue. Scope creep (talk) 17:52, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
I will check my PC. Scope creep (talk) 17:56, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
It is not visible on their either. Its a decent monitor, a Dell Ultrasharp. Should be visible. Another colour perhaps? Scope creep (talk)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-7.png, can you see it here? --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:31, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Missed one: Pink planes: Retreating signals units, out-stations and signals staff. Also please change HQ for W-Leit 2 to W-Leit 2 HQ.Scope creep (talk) 18:08, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
I can see it now and it's on the correct line, and blue. It looks great, although I'm on my mates laptop which is ancient. Plane detail still missing. It should be. I will need to examine the text again Scope creep (talk) 21:28, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Can you check with another browser as I don't think it's the color. Two drafts, one as svg file and one as png file. Can you make print screens for me and keep the adress bar so I can see which is which.
I see the text is in the legend. Will do. Its looks functionality perfect. Will do. Scope creep (talk) 21:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: I'm back on my own laptop. I can now see the line perfectly in 7.2. I take a quick look at the rest of it, but I think functionally complete. Scope creep (talk) 11:40, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: I think that is a solid bit of work. I think it is finished. Information is as follows:
Name:Line of Withdrawal of Luftwaffe Signals in the Western Mediterranean
Description: This diagram represents organisational withdrawl of Luftwaffe signals units in the Western Mediterranean, July 1943 to May 1945. After the fall of Africa, Luftwaffe signals units retreated as the Allies gained ground. The retreat started after Tunisia was captured by the Allies in Tunisia in May 1943, followed by Sicily in August 1943. The Luftwaffe removed critical DF, radar and intercept out-station equipment first from Tunisia to Frascati, and then from Frascati to Padua, as the war progressed. Frascati was the regional headquarters of Albert Kesselring before being moved to Padua and then Canazei. Scope creep (talk) 15:41, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Uploaded new file File:Line of Withdrawal of Luftwaffe Signals in the Western Mediterranean.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-8a-1.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

I'll get on it. Scope creep (talk) 17:52, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep:I just looked at 8b, don't you want a+b as one map? --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:01, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: I think page 56 and 57 are the same map. Yip, two maps need combined. Identical map space to the last one map, with a different view, but slightly deeper, longer? as it shows El Ahouina, which is a neighbourhood of Tunis. The radar station is in Marsala on Sicily. There is two sets of lines, one slightly dashed for DF baselines. The dashed one is years 43 to 44. The BIG X is Oberhaching that is in Germany, so it will need country outlines. I think the reason why the two maps have been duplicated, on the carbon paper map, you cant see the dashes. I was wondering why there were two sets. Weird. MACAF which can put in the description is Mediterranean Allied Coastal Air Force. There is several for each type of bombing. Scope creep (talk) 18:35, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep:I can't find U-Altenburg, as we are adding borders I need a position. --Goran tek-en (talk) 20:57, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: It is called Mosonmagyaróvár, Hungary, the Germans called it, as an exonym, Altenburg. The coords are 47°51'42.32"N, 17°15'44.97"E. I drew a couple of lines of Google earth pro, setting the vertical position as between the move page controls and add sticky not on Adobe reader, and the wee island that has the city of Supertar off the coast of Italy, and drew a vertical line to the left right up to the top into Russia. The place was close to the vertical line on Google earth, but I wouldn't have found it without WP. Scope creep (talk) 22:12, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-8a+b-1.svg. I had to guess on the different lines here to. You should also check the borders, they should be from 1944 but I'm not sure. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:12, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
Fixes, on a cracking map.
  • DF stations isn't in the left legend.
  • Is it possible to expand the Jul to July and so on, if their is space.
  • Malta Naval Recce is missing, put in Legend. Possibly need a new colour.
  • Those dashed line with bomber groups on them, when they are DF baselines. I think that is fine.
  • Belgrade has a e'.
  • The u-altenberg is Wieselburg-Ungarisch Altenburg. I think get rid of the U and make it Altenburg.
  • Change 205 Bomber Group to 205 Bomber Group RAF.
I have the borders yet, need to get a map from somewhere. Scope creep (talk) 01:13, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Excellent planes. I will need to a secure a map. Scope creep (talk) 01:23, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-8a+b-2.svg. Did you want me to change anything with this "Those dashed line with bomber groups on them, when they are DF baselines. I think that is fine.".
  • I have an extension to Google Chrome, Aline, that lets you put guides on on top of any web page, it's great when you need to set a position like we did. --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:04, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Afternoon @Goran tek-en: I was thinking about loud, Yip, it looks ok. Its cleaner, with the MACAF sentence, fixed, but some fixes are still needed. I checked the map boundaries on this map: 1944 Map and they're ok, except for one bit, described below.
  • Change 205 Bomber Group to 205 Bomber Group RAF.
    It was the RAF bombing from that direction, i.e. No. 205 (Heavy Bomber) Group.
  • Yugoslavia is spelt wrong. It should be Yugoslavia.
  • Czechoslovakia is missing. I don't know how much work it is, but it might be a controversial missing them out. I know to put the Germany text and Czechoslovakia might not be enough space.
  • Can you change Fall of Tunis to Fall of Tunis May 1943
That really rounds it off. That is excellent. It much better than the original diagram. What the different the colours make, on it. It has brought out the fact that different DF lines were being set up as they retreated north. Scope creep (talk) 15:07, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: If All of the planes and the black lines are from the allied that should be mentioned in some way. That's nothing I understand without that info. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:40, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: I was going to put it in the caption, the fact the bombers were coming in from the south, and attacking progressively further north. That is the essence of the diagram, that they are falling further and further back. You could put a description in the legend, but it would be substantial and require more changes, something like, DF baselines were used to track the Allied 12th Command and 9th Bomber Groups and other Allied air units, as the Luftwaffe was pushed back and progressively fell back into Germany. Put it at the top of the Legend, and that will be a description of the image. I don't know what you think about this but it is quite long, and be too big for the Legend. It could be Luftwaffe signal units established DF baselines, used to track Allied bomber groups as the Luftwaffe was pushed back into Germany between May 1942 and September 1944 is shorter. Could be better? Also the fixes plus on more which are:
  • Change 205 Bomber Group to 205 Bomber Group RAF.
  • Change Fall of Tunis to Fall of Tunis May 1943.
  • Change spelling in Yugoslavia to Yugoslavia.
  • Czechoslovakia border is missing. I dont know how hard this is?
  • Change Front Line to Front Line June 1941 to May 1943
  • Lastly, that I just noticed. Is it possible to change the order in the legend, to obey the order in the diagram? So light blue is at the top as its September 1944-May 1945, and so on. Black at the bottom and so on. Scope creep (talk) 18:07, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Draft 184-8a+b-3.svg. I have made some changes by my self and if you don't like them we go back to the previous ones. To me black is was Germany during this period so I changed that to red. I also changed the information texts for the green dashed lines to green after your explanation. I have also put RAF there, don't know if that is correct. Made changes to the legends, it's a lot text/info, maybe we should move the explanation to tje description as you said, it's up to you. The text in the legend for allied bombing, check that, and everything else as always. --Goran tek-en (talk) 19:49, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en: I would keep it black Goran. The diagram isn't indicative of a static event, the 205 bomber group has maybe 4000 aircraft in it, so they are bombing this huge area every day. The planes are there to show the routes, into the DF base-lines. I'm always worried about straying from the diagram, as a couple of years ago I got called up for it, and dont want to repeat it, so I would keep it black. They have indicated it as sharp black, and it looks decent on the map. With all the other fixes in that you have done, the only thing do is change it back. Lastly change the Fall of Tunis to Fall of Tunis May 1943 in the legend box. Ignore that frontline one. I didn't understand what it was. Scope creep (talk) 20:35, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-8a+b-4.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 15:40, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Name: Luftwaffe HF Baselines in Central Mediterranean
Description: Luftwaffe organisation of High-Frequency in the central Mediterranean area from May 1943 to September 1944. As the German Army conquered Italy, Sicily and Tunisia, Luftwaffe Signal Intelligence established DF baselines, radar intercept and radar jamming sites and signal intercept out-stations among the different locations to detect Allied heavy-bomber movements. As the Allies pushed the Axis up the spine of Italy, the Luftwaffe progressively established new DF baselines as it withdrew. By late 1944 the Luftwaffe Signals were pushed into Germany.

Scope creep (talk) 16:32, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Uploaded new file File:Luftwaffe HF Baselines in Central Mediterranean.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:56, 3 January 2019 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-9a-1.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:36, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en: Lets check. You need some names, give me some names.
That one in the middle top is Futa Pass
Rom is Rome
Padua one is Monte Venda (this is the X)
The name at Genoa is Portofino

Scope creep (talk) 15:05, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

The one in Verona is Montecchio that is north of the city. Scope creep (talk) 15:12, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
The below Padua is Monteortone (a church with a tower), which is a slope of Colli Euganei, at Abano Terme.
The udine I wont able to find. It's on a flat plain, 10 north is the alps with numerous peaks.
Genua is Genoa

Scope creep (talk) 15:48, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Draft 184-9a-2.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:24, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
Thats is excellent. Quick ones are so excellent.
Name: Luftwaffe VHF DF stations, first half of 1944
Description: Organisation of Luftwaffe VHF Direction Finding stations during the first six months of 1944.
I dont want to put a description about falling back. I think at this point they still occupy most of Italy, although Tunisia and Sicily is gone. Scope creep (talk) 16:36, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Uploaded new file File:Luftwaffe VHF DF stations, first half of 1944.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:27, 5 January 2019 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-10-1.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:27, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Goran tek-en:
Minor fixes.
Pancevo to Pančevo
I know this is nitpicking, but is the country names need to be so gigantic. My eyesite is terrible, but they pretty big and dominate. May be the size when zoom into the map. Bulgaria is a bit dodgy. Scope creep (talk) 18:50, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-10-2.svg. I totally agree on the names, I saw it when it was uploaded and right then I didn't have the energy to change it, sorry. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: It is a huge amount of work you have done in the last three-four weeks and its no blame for any mistakes. It's the sort of work that would have taken me four-eight months (I'm not kidding), and would have been a complete mess. It is has been sterling work indeed, first-rate. I think we're almost near the end, there can only a few left. I'll check. Only a couple. Almost done.
Name: Luftwaffe organisation of VHF DF Stations in Balkans in the first half of 1944.
Description: Organisation of Luftwaffe VHF Direction Finding stations in the Balkans during the first six months of 1944.
Scope creep (talk) 18:15, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Uploaded new file File:Luftwaffe organisation of VHF DF Stations in Balkans in the first half of 1944.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:15, 7 January 2019 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-11-1.svg.

  • Some of the places are not shown where a "city" name is on today map so I tried to put them as the map has them.
  • Is the Hungarian border to the north correct? If not we might have the same fault in another map.
  • Is there some kind of border that passes thru Demolita, south to north?
  • For the area of Athens I can't really se how many of the islands that should be included?
  • Same for area Tirana. --Goran tek-en (talk) 19:01, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: Deeply cool map. Yip. I'll check. Scope creep (talk) 01:19, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
Checking each one.
Hungarian border. It is a wee bit off, but it a broad brush and it is in the rough shape, and in the right spot. I used this 1944 map at [7]. Not that bad, but northern border a bit askew. It follows a river on the left.
Demolita. I can't find it. I will need to search.

Scope creep (talk) 18:41, 10 January 2019 (UTC)

Name fixes.
Burgaz to Burgas
Demotica is now Didimoticho at 41°20'53.48"N, 26°29'46.90"E
The border which is to the right of Didimoticho is a river.
Romania is quite weird as it looks as they have just been plopped down. I have placed some placemarks in Google Earth Pro, but they dont look right. There is a mountain of places in Romania with names ending with esti.
Rumania to Romania
Constanta to Constanţa and is at 44° 10′ 0″ N, 28° 38′ 0″ E
Janesti to Zărnești at 45°33'30.33"N, 25°19'29.06"E
Ploesti to Ploiești is at 44°56'5.64"N, 26° 1'9.19"E (almost directly above Budapest)
Pitești is missing at 44°51'19.04"N, 24°52'14.48"E
Mahmudia is at 45° 4'52.42"N, 29° 5'17.99"E
Floresti is Florești at 45° 1'44.51"N, 25°48'10.51"E
Oberharting to Oberhaching
Pancevo to Pančevo
Nisli is Niš
Salonika to Thessaloniki
Parnis to Parnitha
Rhodoos to Rhodes
Elos is Élos at 35°21'37.83"N, 23°38'3.20"E
Kalochorio is Kalo chorio at 35° 6'49.96"N, 25°43'24.13"E.
@Goran tek-en: I will leave it there for a moment. I'm brain dead working on Romania. Pick it up tomorrow. I have not check unit emplacements yet. Scope creep (talk) 22:24, 10 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-11-2.svg.
  • Then Romania is misspelt in Luftwaffe MF and HF DF baselines of W-Leit Southeast, autumn of 1943.svg also, I will change.
  • Now there is one position to many in Romania. --Goran tek-en (talk) 19:12, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
Yip I know. I'll take a look at it. Changes:
Black triangle in the legend. Change VHF and Radar intercept out-station to VHF intercept out-station.
Change WT in the legend to Wireless Telegraphy.
The white diamond in the legend box should only be: Radar intercept out-station
Romania: Soldanul is Soldanu at 44°13'29.01"N, 26°31'21.80"E.
Take out Ploiești. It is not on the map.
Tankabesti is the correct name and is at: 44°40'51.37"N, 26° 4'24.55"E
Bucharest is at 44°25'36.30"N, 26° 6'8.99"E
@Goran tek-en: Try these changes and see how it looks like in Romania, after they are changed. Scope creep (talk) 20:31, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
This is a couple of changes I've not put in, but I will do it next, see what Romania looks like, if it follows the shape on the original diagram, hopefully. 20:34, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
@Scope creep: Draft 184-11-3.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 22:07, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: Righty then. I have looked at this until I'm blue in the face. The only thing I can say for sure is that only 5 out the 8 locations in Romania are spot on. The other 3 I don't know. I can't spend any more time on it.
The other fixes are:
Change St Nickolas to Agios Nikolaos on Crete
Kalachoria on crete is Kalo Choria at 35° 6'57.46"N, 25°43'26.49"E
Back in a sec. Scope creep (talk) 15:18, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Name: Largest geographic expansion of Luftwaffe W-Leit Southeast in the middle of 1944
Description: This diagram represents the largest geographic area that the Luftwaffe unit, W-Leit Southeast ever controlled, which occurred in the middle of 1944. At that point, the unit started to withdraw.
Scope creep (talk) 15:26, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Uploaded new file File:Largest geographic expansion of Luftwaffe W-Leit Southeast in the middle of 1944.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:18, 13 January 2019 (UTC)


@Scope creep: Draft 184-20-1.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:33, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en:
Change vasvar to Vasvár
Chane Schweiz to Switzerland
Change Gyor to Győr
Change Alasso to Alassio
Name: Luftwaffe Radio Communication Network of VHF and Radar Intercept Out-Stations, Signals Regiment South
Description: The diagram represents the communication system for Signals Regiment South. The regiment was controlled by Meldekopf Vienna, the central communication control station for the whole regiment. Each radar or intercept out-station would communicate with the Meldekopf either via direct telephone line by teleprinter when it was available, or by radio link when direct telephone lines were not available, usually later in the war.

@Goran tek-en: Scope creep (talk) 09:08, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

@Scope creep: Uploaded new file File:Luftwaffe Radio Communication Network of VHF and Radar Intercept Out-Stations, Signals Regiment South.svg. I goess that was the last one for this time.   Done--Goran tek-en (talk) 10:13, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi @Goran tek-en: Thanks for that. It was very welcome, and brightens up the article something terrible. Scope creep (talk) 14:45, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

New map requestsEdit

Hello again, Goran. Happy New Year! I come with two new map requests, if you have time and are interested. While working on the article about Jean-François-Marie de Surville, I realised that a map would be useful to show his voyage. I've got two (non-free) sources.

Map of his whole voyage
Map of his movements in around the North Cape of New Zealand.

I'd like two maps like this, one of his broader voyage, and one of his movements around the North Cape. The North Cape one also includes the movements of Cook, who was navigating the area at the same time. This should be much easier than my last request...let me know! RGloucester (talk) 21:12, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

@RGloucester: I will help you but I need the sources as I will set them up as info source. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:22, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
I linked them above. Did you not see the links? RGloucester (talk) 21:18, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: To me that link is to yours (or some one else) google drive and not the place that page comes from. Maybe you scanned it from a book and uploaded the image, I don't know. I need either a link to where the source is for real or if you have the book I need name, author and which page. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:59, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
That's my Google Drive. It's direct excerpt from a digital copy of the book, which I accessed using EBSCOhost. If you look at the bottom of the excerpts, you'll see the book's name, &c., are listed. In any case, these are from The Expedition of the St. Jean-Baptiste to the Pacific, 1769-1770: From Journals of Jean de Surville and Guillaume Labé, edited by John Dunmore. The first map is page 34, the second is 137. RGloucester (talk) 18:06, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: I'm not familiar with EBSCOhost so I didn't see the text at the bottom, I was looking at the map. Thanks for page # info also as linking to your drive is not a long term source, but the book is. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:43, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: Draft whole-1. --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:56, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Looks good. A few corrections. "Bornea" should be "Borneo". "Tartary", "Kamchatka", and "North West Coast" can be removed is irrelevant. Finally, the Easter Island label is there, but I don't see the actual island. There are also seems to be a strange group of islands in the middle of the route from New Zealand to South America, which I think should be removed. Thanks. RGloucester (talk) 15:44, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: Draft whole-2. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:54, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
Looks perfect to me. Thanks again for your hard work. You can upload it with the name "Voyage of the Saint Jean-Baptise". The description can be the same, I'll edit it later. Is the second map more difficult? RGloucester (talk) 19:11, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: Can you give me at least one category for it. I'm working on the other one. --Goran tek-en (talk) 16:25, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: Draft north_cape-1. --Goran tek-en (talk) 19:05, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
For both maps, use Category:Jean-François-Marie de Surville. The second map looks good too. It just needs a legend, indicating that the blue line is the route of James Cook's Endeavour, and the red line is the route of Jean-François-Marie de Surville's Saint Jean-Baptiste. Also, please change the spelling of "harbor" to "harbour", and capitalise all such words, like "beach", "harbour", "point", "bay", etc. I'd also appreciate if, on both maps, you converted the text to paths, so as to make it easier to read. RGloucester (talk) 22:17, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

@RGloucester: Now you can find it here file:Voyage of the Saint Jean-Baptise.svg.
Draft north_cape-2. I know that there is a problem with rendered png's (thumbnails) that are not in 100% and text stretching. This has to do with the library that wikimedia uses and is out of my control. But to change the text into path is not something recommended, fonts/text. So I'm not happy to do this at all at this time. --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:12, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

I understand your concern, but the reason I asked is because another editor did such a conversion at File:Northern Expedition 1926–28.svg, and it made the map much easier to read. The page you mention doesn't seem to forbid the change, but if you have reasons for preferring not to, I understand. The last things to do are correct 'Ninety mile Beach' to 'Ninety Mile Beach', and italicise the ship names Endeavour and Saint Jean-Baptiste. The map can be uploaded as "Voyage of Saint Jean-Baptiste around the North Cape", with the same category. RGloucester (talk) 17:18, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

@RGloucester: No there is nothing forbidding one to do so but I don't think the pros are so much greater than the cons to do it, it's up each and one. When I design a map I do so for it to be viewed in 100%, the rest is out of my control, I can never make a preview/thumbnail be as good as the map in 100%. This problem with the text not rendering correct in the png thumbnails is really irritating and makes my work so much harder as I try to give text enough space to expand in a way I can't control. But one day (tomorrow or in a year) the library will be updated and the problem will be gone.

  • What you have asked that other editor to do is not something I like but wikimedia is a free place. If you look at the uploaded file info my original file was 705KB and the new version is 1.17 MB. Also I have tagged that map to be a "W3C valid source code" but I'm not sure if the other editor has checked this again before uploading the new version. If hers/his version is not valid that tagging should be removed by that person, is that checked? And is the improvement really that great, it is still meant to be viewed in 100%.

Now you can find it here file:Voyage of Saint Jean-Baptiste around the North Cape.svg.   Done --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:01, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your hard work. On the subject of the map text, I did not ask that editor to do that...he did it of his own accord, and I've never spoken to him before. I simply noticed the change. I completely understand your reasoning for not wanting to do that, and I trust your judgement in this matter. I hope I have not caused you any distress. You have been an invaluable help in illustrating topics that would otherwise be left without any visual representation. I cannot thank you enough for your continued work here. RGloucester (talk) 18:18, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: No problem with either thing, we all have to help each other: you do the investigation/writing, I do some graphic work. --Goran tek-en (talk) 10:20, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
  • I've realised after the fact that File:Voyage of the Saint Jean-Baptiste.svg could use a legend. It looks incomplete without it. Could you add a legend that says: "Route of the Saint Jean-Baptiste, 1769–70". Please make sure to italicise the ship name. Thanks very much! RGloucester (talk) 01:40, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: Draft legend, like this? --Goran tek-en (talk) 11:30, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that's perfect. Thank you. RGloucester (talk) 16:16, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
AH! There is a spelling error, and it is my fault. Saint Jean-Baptiste is the proper spelling...I apologise. RGloucester (talk) 17:02, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
@RGloucester: New version uploaded. --Goran tek-en (talk) 10:43, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. I appreciate it, as always. RGloucester (talk) 16:46, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Request for map of battles of Uganda-Tanzania WarEdit

Hello Goran, happy new year! I'm coming to you with another map request for the Uganda-Tanzania War. I've just acquired a copy of a book that has a nice map of Uganda and its border regions that shows the locations of battles of the war and the directions in which Ugandan troops fled into neighboring countries. It's fairly extensive, but printed in a hand-drawn style, so it might require more work than usual and maybe the plotting of geographic locations on a more exact, pre-existing political map for precision. If you're interested, let me know so I can email you a copy of it and the translations for the accompanying Swahili legend. -Indy beetle (talk) 01:39, 22 January 2019 (UTC)

@Indy beetle: It's always hard to know before you have the material so send it to me and then I can decide. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:58, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: It appears the Wikimedia "Email this user" function does not allow photos to be sent, so it might be that you'll have to email me a message first so I can send it to you directly through my email account. -Indy beetle (talk) 19:09, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: Map and translation sent. -Indy beetle (talk) 02:34, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
@Indy beetle: Yes I can help you but as before I will need the exakt source of the map, if it's free or not, before I begin, thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:56, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: It's under copyright. It's from Vita vya Kagera : Kagera hadi Arua by Luteni Kanali J. F. Ngatuni, Meja A. N. Kigadye, and Kapteni M. A. I. Ghahae (1982), page 23. -Indy beetle (talk) 23:33, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
@Indy beetle: I need your help here. In this image you can see things I have found (red dots) and things I haven't found (blue dots/line). I would need coordinates or so to be able to add them, thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:25, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: Okay so it appears that Pakwachi is really Pakwach, Mpiji is really Mpigi, Ziwa George can be found at Lake George, and Mto Kagera can be found at Kagera River. Kyotera is Kyotera. I don't know about the other ones. -Indy beetle (talk) 23:14, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
@Indy beetle: I have included what we know so check this draft and tell me what to add, change or what ever, thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:18, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: Nice work. The only thing I can think to add is a marker for the Battle of Lukaya. Strange that the original map didn't have it. Also, the legend should say "Fleeing Ugandan troops", not "Fleeing Ugandan troop's". And I think "Occupied area by Uganda 1978" could be reworded as "Area occupied by Uganda, 1978". Other than that, everything looks great! -Indy beetle (talk) 20:53, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
@Indy beetle: New draft. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:41, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en: Excellent, it looks like it's ready to be uploaded. -Indy beetle (talk) 17:49, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

@Indy beetle: Then I will need the following;
  • Name of the file
  • Description
  • Category/ies at commons
to be able to upload it at commons. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:01, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en:
-Indy beetle (talk) 19:02, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

@Indy beetle: Now you can find it here file:Battles of the Uganda–Tanzania War.svg.   Done --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:03, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

@Goran tek-en: Fantastic work! Thank you for your help. -Indy beetle (talk) 04:35, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Map update requestEdit

Hi Goran, Can you please see if these maps File:Locator map Punjab Pakistan.svg, File:Locator map Punjab Pakistan (relief).jpg, File:Locator map Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.svg can be updated to remove the "maroon" color from Indian administered Kashmir to keep it neutral on the locator maps (used on WP). Thanks. Gotitbro (talk) 15:32, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

@Gotitbro: This is always difficult as personal preferences can come in to this, and my knowledge about this subject is very low. When I read at this page it doesn't appear to be wrong to mark out an area like this. So I really don't know how to act here. For the moment I will not change it, you will have to get me more convinced for that. I hope you understand me, thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 10:26, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
This is indeed a sensitive issue that is why from what I've seen no locator maps for India/Pakistan or even any Kashmir administrative region currently on use at WP use such claimant maps (e.g. File:India Jammu and Kashmir location map.svg, File:Gilgit Baltistan Location Map.svg) only these two maps by a recent contributor stand out. Locator for both countries have not had claims marked out, so it seems better to me if that is maintained here as well. Thanks. Gotitbro (talk) 12:55, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
@Gotitbro: I can go with that, but you have to tell which color should replace in this File:Locator map Punjab Pakistan.svg and this File:Locator map Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.svg. The third one which is a jpg, I think I can use the source and replace just that part. --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:20, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
The color same as the rest of outside/India should be correct here (e.g. File:Gilgit Baltistan Location Map.svg, Azad Kashmir Location Map.svg). Gotitbro (talk) 13:38, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
@Gotitbro: Please remeber I don't know anything about this area, it would had been so much easier for me to just no the color. Now you have to check those two drafts, Locator_map_Punjab_Pakistan.svg and Locator_map_Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa.svg. --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:35, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

I meant the same color as the rest of India/outside, i.e., area which is not Pakistan in this case the dark grey of the surrounding countries. The current drafts makes it look like the Indian Kashmir is also under Pakistan. Thanks. Gotitbro (talk) 14:41, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

@Gotitbro: Please read what I'm writing. I repeat, I have NO knowledge of borders areas or what ever. Just tell me which color the previous "maroon" colored areas should be on respective map. --Goran tek-en (talk) 15:02, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Sorry for confusing you, these colors should be used instead of maroon in the respective locator maps: Punjab, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (marked in image). Gotitbro (talk) 15:12, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
@Gotitbro: New versions uploaded.   Done--Goran tek-en (talk) 16:34, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
That's great. Thank you for the help. Gotitbro (talk) 16:46, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Bilateral map Ghana and HungaryEdit

Hello! I would like to ask for your help. I need a map showing the locations of both Ghana and Hungary. This map would illustrate the Ghana–Hungary relations to be created in English wiki. Thanks in advance, --Norden1990 (talk) 20:51, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

@Norden1990: I can help you with that but you will have to tell me, or show on a map, which area the overall map should cover? --Goran tek-en (talk) 15:05, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for answer. this could be a sample. --Norden1990 (talk) 17:51, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
@Norden1990: Draft to check. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:42, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, it would be OK, but could you use green color for Ghana and orange for Hungary, as it's usual in English wiki to represent bilateral relations? See for instance --Norden1990 (talk) 18:45, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
@Norden1990: Of course I will change and also I will need the following;
  • Name of the file
  • Description
  • Category/ies at commons
to be able to upload it at commons. --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:56, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, --Norden1990 (talk) 18:38, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

@Norden1990: Now you can find it here file:Ghana Hungary Locator.svg.   Done --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:12, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you! --Norden1990 (talk) 15:44, 17 March 2019 (UTC)


Hello Goran, Could you make a map for the rule of Fakhr Al-Din II similar to the one you made for Zahir Al-Umar? AliHusseinAbbas (talk) 17:52, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

@AliHusseinAbbas: You will have to link to that map because I don't know which you mean, thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:13, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Could you also make similar maps to the rule of Jazzar Pasha, Harfush Dynasty in the Bekaa and Nassif Al Nassar (Amir of Jabal Amil)? AliHusseinAbbas (talk) 23:57, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Fakhr Al-Din II, AliHusseinAbbas (talk) 23:58, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Harfush Dynasty:, AliHusseinAbbas (talk) 23:59, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Nasif Al-Nassar, AliHusseinAbbas (talk) 00:00, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
Jazzar Pasha:, AliHusseinAbbas (talk) 00:00, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
I was talking about this map:, AliHusseinAbbas (talk) 00:03, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
@AliHusseinAbbas: First of all, I have zero knowledge of this subject. So for each one of the different four you want maps on I will need;
  • The overall area that each map should hold.
  • The area of each of the "kingdoms/dynastis".
  • Exact information on what else should be added to each map.
Do understand I create maps, not research or anything like that, thanks.
@AliHusseinAbbas: If you don't provide me with the information I need there is nothing I can do.
--Goran tek-en (talk) 17:41, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

I did provide you with the links that answers exactly the questions you asked me. You’re confusing me. First you ask for links, and then I provide you with them, and now you want the areas they were ruling. The links answer your questions or do you want me to write with my own words the areas they were ruling? AliHusseinAbbas111 (talk) 03:55, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

@AliHusseinAbbas: I'm sorry if I'm confusing you. I'm a graphic worker not investigator or researcher. The links you have provided are for articles of the "kingdoms/dynastis" and there is a lot of text. What I need is maps (links to them) that show the area of them. How can I know the area of them if you can't show them to me?
It might be a bit confusing that I need a map/source to be able to make a map but as I have no knowledge of this, how should I do? --Goran tek-en (talk) 08:59, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Oh okay now I understand. The reason I requested maps for these dynasties is cos there exist no maps for these dynasties. Only description of the territory that they used to rule. So I thought demonstrating it on a map would be good. AliHusseinAbbas111 (talk) 16:21, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
@AliHusseinAbbas: But as you have the knowledge of those dynasties can't you draw a very simple map. If you take a screen print on OSM of the area you want for each dynasti and then draw it (doesn't have to be exact) on that screen print and give me access to it we can work from there. But if you know of any map in the references you have on the articles I can use that as information even if it has copyright on it. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:19, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

I’ll see what I can do. I’ll try to draw it. Unfortunately no maps exist of these dynasties, I already looked. AliHusseinAbbas111 (talk) 03:34, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!Edit

  The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
Thought you deserved one here too :) for Vale Royal Abbey. Cheers! Serial Number 54129 (talk) 16:33, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129: Thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:05, 29 March 2019 (UTC)


Because you used {{NO Facebook Youtube license}} several times. Youtube allows to use CC-BY licenses:

 — Johannes Kalliauer - Talk | Contributions 09:35, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@JoKalliauer: Thanks for that information, I changed that link to "en" so I could read it. I use "cc-by-sa" license and that link talks about "cc-by" so that is a difference which I'm not really sure how it affects. This is all so complicated it's really hard to do the right thing. If you have more knowledge/info please let me know, thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 11:41, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Yes thats true, youtube does not offer CC-BY-SA
CC-BY aswell as CC-BY-SA requires to name the Author, License, URL to the Lizense,... Therfore reuseing is identical
The difference is if you make a derivative of a CC-BY-SA picture you have to republish it under CC-BY-SA,
but if you make a derivative of a CC-BY picture you have to offer the original file under CC-BY (and make an Attribution (name, License,...) , but you could publish the derivative under a more strikt license, like you do not allow other to use to share the derivative at all
 — Johannes Kalliauer - Talk | Contributions 19:12, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@JoKalliauer: I don't understand this part "like you do not allow other to use to share the derivative at all". A derivative of CC-BY-SA can be shared as long as they follow that license. I probably misunderstood your text. --Goran tek-en (talk) 13:50, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
Let's make an example: If File:Wikipedia_japanese_introducing.svg would have been published under CC-BY, I am allowed to publish File:Wikipedia_japanese_introducing.png under "(C) all rights reserved", but I have to name the author, the license, a link to the license, and what I changed.  — Johannes Kalliauer - Talk | Contributions 16:59, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
@JoKalliauer: Correct but you wrote "like you do not allow other to use to share the derivative at all", but it can be shared under cc-by-sa and that is what I want. --Goran tek-en (talk) 17:44, 1 April 2019 (UTC)
I was talking about a derivative of a CC-BY picture "but if you make a derivative of a CC-BY picture", and that can be published with all rights reserved, then nobody (extecpt the autor) is allowed to use nor to share the derivative. Therefore everything I wrote was correct.
I just wanted to explain the difference between CC-BY and CC-BY-SA, and that there is in my opion not much differnce between them, except that CC-BY-SA-Pictures cannnot be combined with other Pictures.
 — Johannes Kalliauer - Talk | Contributions 19:47, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Infobox map for the Wikipedia article Pahlavi dynastyEdit

Wikimedia Commons has a map File:BlankMap-World-1970.png, which shows the world map in 1970, including Iran ruled by Pahlavi dynasty (Pahlavi dynasty was a dynasty of Iran between 1925 and 1979). Thus, we can properly change the map File:BlankMap-World-1970.png, in order to make the new map to become the infobox map for the Wikipedia article Pahlavi dynasty. First, only remain the five regions: (1) Western Asia, (2) Central Asia, (3) Black Sea, Caspian Sea and the lands between them, (4) Afghanistan, and (5) West Pakistan, as a whole from the original map. Then, enlarge the five regions as a whole to the size of the original map. After that, emphasize Iran in green and sign the names of all countries in the new map. Finally, name the new map as "File:Iran 1970.png". In conclusion, it is better for the new map "File:Iran 1970.png" to become the infobox map for the Wikipedia article Pahlavi dynasty. —Preceding unsigned comment was added by 2409:8900:1E40:707E:A1BF:2ABB:6907:4D44 (talk) 13:31, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

@Matthew hk: If this is you I would like you to confirm this as I don't do work for unsigned requests and signing is standard Commons:Signatures, thanks. --Goran tek-en (talk) 14:49, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

U.S. recognition of Armenian genocide mapEdit


Just wanted to let you know that the state you highlighted as green on this map is Mississippi, not Alabama. If you could fix this it would be greatly appreciated. Spengouli (talk) 21:54, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
@Spengouli: Thanks,   Done. --Goran tek-en (talk) 09:27, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Вікі любить Землю 2019 в Україні триває до 31 травня!Edit


З 1 по 31 травня триває сьомий конкурс «Вікі любить Землю» (Wiki Loves Earth), метою якого є фотографування пам'яток природи. Протягом травня ви можете завантажувати власні фото природно-заповідного фонду України та змагатися за призи. Зі списками пам'яток природи України можна ознайомитися тут. Приєднуйтеся!

Цього року є деякі зміни в правилах, зокрема:

  • фотографії пам'яток, які на момент початку конкурсу не мали жодної ілюстрації на Вікісховищі або у Вікіпедії, отримують коефіцієнт 10 в кількісній номінації. Якщо ви маєте фото ще не проілюстрованих пам'яток — це збільшить ваші шанси на перемогу;
  • окрема спецномінація для аерофотозйомки (фото з дронів тощо).

Більше інформації про конкурс читайте на сайті конкурсу. Якщо у Вас є запитання, можете звертатися wle – Оргкомітет «Вікі любить Землю» (in English). 22:28, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Map I madeEdit

I noticed you've made quite a few good maps. As such, i was wondering whether this map I created needed any improvements. Thanks Floathreenn (talk) 18:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

@Floathreenn: Hi, it's all about your intentions of the map. But I would have preferred it to be an svg (vector) map instead of a bitmap and we have those conventions that we try to stick to so the different maps looks a bit the same. So check thru that page and the pages linked form it. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:56, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Since I'm a bit of a novice, could you please make an SVG version of this image that incorporates the necessary conventions? Preferably a black+white and a colored (any color) version. Floathreenn (talk) 13:10, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
@Floathreenn: Right now I'm busy but I can help you in a while, (not very long).--Goran tek-en (talk) 13:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. Btw, the name of the file should be "1908 Cordeaux-Darwiish territorial proposal". Its description: "1908 proposal by the leader of the Dervishes, to Harry Cordeaux, British Somaliland's colonial administrator." Its category: "Category:Maps showing the history of the former colonies of the United Kingdom". Floathreenn (talk) 17:49, 29 May 2019 (UTC)


@Goran tek-en: Can you do my request here?--Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 09:37, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

@Jeromi Mikhael: First I just want to remember you to sign your request at graphic lab. I myself never touch an unsigned request as I don't know how to get feedback/help.
Right now I can't do it but later on if this file KPU_Logo.svg is correct as it is (I see the difference in the lower left part of the shield and the border around)? --Goran tek-en (talk) 11:57, 15 June 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: Update about the request: The logo has been done. Only the mascot needs your help.--Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 14:29, 17 June 2019 (UTC)


File:BlankMap-World6.png has been listed at Commons:Deletion requests so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this file, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it, such as a copyright issue.

Please remember to respond to and – if appropriate – contradict the arguments supporting deletion. Arguments which focus on the nominator will not affect the result of the nomination. Thank you!

Afrikaans | العربية | беларуская (тарашкевіца)‎ | български | বাংলা | català | čeština | dansk | Deutsch | Deutsch (Sie-Form)‎ | Zazaki | Ελληνικά | English | Esperanto | español | eesti | فارسی | suomi | français | galego | עברית | hrvatski | magyar | Հայերեն | Bahasa Indonesia | íslenska | italiano | 日本語 | 한국어 | 한국어 (조선) | македонски | മലയാളം | Plattdüütsch | Nederlands | norsk nynorsk | norsk | occitan | polski | پښتو | português | português do Brasil | română | русский | sicilianu | slovenčina | slovenščina | shqip | српски / srpski | svenska | ไทย | Türkçe | українська | Tiếng Việt | 中文 | 中文(简体)‎ | 中文(繁體)‎ | +/−

Cherkash (talk) 19:59, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Map of route of Black Prince chevauchée of 1355Edit

Hi Goran tek-en. I was wondering if you would be interested in creating a map based on 1 (1355 southern campaign) or 2 or 3 (page 10)? Any questions or further info required, please let me know. Regards Newm30 (talk) 12:55, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

@Newm30: Hi, I can help you but not right now. If that is OK for you I will get back to you when I have the time. --Goran tek-en (talk) 18:19, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
@Goran tek-en: That’s ok. Hope you are well and will wait for your assistance. Regards Newm30 (talk) 11:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "Goran tek-en".