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Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Kareenza!

-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 22:53, 2 September 2014 (UTC)


File:Terence Hogan and Roz Hogan in Cannes.jpgEdit

File:Terence Hogan and Roz Hogan in Cannes.jpg has been marked as a possible copyright violation. Wikimedia Commons only accepts free content—that is, images and other media files that can be used by anyone, for any purpose. Traditional copyright law does not grant these freedoms, and unless noted otherwise, everything you find on the web is copyrighted and not permitted here. For details on what is acceptable, please read Commons:Licensing. You may also find Commons:Copyright rules useful, or you can ask questions about Commons policies at the Commons:Help desk.

The file you added may soon be deleted. If you believe this file is not a copyright violation, you may replace the copyvio tag with a regular deletion request.

Wikimedia Commons takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

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Fred the Oyster (talk) 23:19, 2 September 2014 (UTC)


Unblock request granted

This blocked user asked to be unblocked, and one or more administrators has reviewed and granted this request.

Request reason: "I am 'terence hogan's daughter, I have not been on wiki for a long time. I uploaded details of our life and his photos today, why would I be blocked and accused of vandalism, I cannot believe this. I am in shock and dreadfully upset, you could have at least asked me or offered help. I have not been rude to anyone, I love wiki, why would you do this, I am just in tears, I have not said anything that was not true, I have cited the books my father is in, the pictures belong to me Karen Rose Hogan,,,,, pls explain why this happened and help me kareenza"
Unblock reason: "Please see reply below"
This template should be archived normally.
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(Change local status for a global block)

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Rodhullandemu (talk) 20:23, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

You are unblockedEdit

May be that you don't understand our image policies here (you were warned for one of the same images four years ago), but almost certainly the pictures of your father were taken by somebody else who is the copyright owner, even though you may own the prints. Those images need clearance from the photographer via OTRS or be uploaded to Wikipedia under fair use. Cheers. As for being a Daily Mail journalist, you have my entire sympathy. Rodhullandemu (talk) 20:22, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

  Comment It looks like you are trying to nominate w:File:Terry Hogan in Athens 1956.jpg for deletion, but that image only exists in Wikipedia not Commons. -- SLV100 (talk) 20:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

@Rodhullandemu, Rodhullandemu: You were very kind to unblock me. I am sorry as I set up the page years ago and as there is a documentary which will involve my dad and how crime affects the children so I tried to make the page interesting. I was stupid and niave. I wrote the article for the daily mail and have the copyright for the article and the included pictures which I tried to upload. Can I just say I work in Good Health, this was a one off article regarding a man with an abusive childhood beyond belief. I do not agree with everything the paper says, I am not involved in politics, I write health to help with dementia, child abuse etc... so please dont judge me. If you would want to help an ignorant woman re these photos I would so love your expertise as I would like to create a proper page so it shows that money does not mean anything in the end and all his fraternity died in poverty or like my dad killed himself. The article has been re edited not by me and there are more questions on the site and I am struggling and just wonder if you would help? kareenzaKareenza (talk) 02:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

I would help but I am currently unable to edit Wikipedia, and I am very busy here. Sorry, but I see ZfJames is already helping you. Rodhullandemu (talk) 08:39, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Deleted filesEdit

Hello Karen. I'm following up on your email to me. Just for the sake of clarity, may I ask what do you hope to get done/fixed? I can see the below subjects being discussed:

Do you wish some/all of them undeleted? If so, why the deletion attempts? Just getting the facts clear, don't worry.

If you wanted them restored, your post on the Help Desk got some valuable replies on what needs to be done. Noted that you also posted a question at the Village Pump. Lets stick to this page from now on, just to centralise the discussions. I'm also pinging the involved users here, so that they know: User:Rodhullandemu, User:SLV100, User:Jmabel, User:Ankry, User:Slowking4, User:ZfJames.

General note to other involved users: While this is most probably a legitimate request/case/event. I feel it is important to highlight that this user's email is from the domain. I mention this because there is currently a huge AOL spam attack happening across most/all Wikimedia mailing lists. As with any case, exercise caution when handling files or clicking unknown links. That being said, the dailymail article linked above obviously does seem legitimate, and the userpage on enwiki is also quite old.

-- Rehman 09:14, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

I so appreciate everyones help, I am so grateful that people like yourself and others have been so kind kareenzaKareenza (talk) 11:07, 14 May 2018 (UTC) my email is definately not spam but understand now that this was of concern kareenzaKareenza (talk) 11:07, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
User:RehmanI understand the article is still under edit. I do not wish the Greece pic go back but the pics I tried to upload or many others I would want to try to upload with help at some point. They are all taken before 1958. I can have them signed off by my Step Mother on the ones that she took before 1978 but just yet dont know how to do that and will remain with the wonderful wiki person who is editing this, and when finished can try and get help kareenzaKareenza (talk) 11:14, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
@Rehman: Hey Rehman, I appreciate the ping! Are these pictures a legitimate copyright issue if User:Kareenza is the original owner of those pictures? How could we demonstrate original ownership (if that is indeed the case)?
Are you the original owner, Kareenza?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by ZfJames (talk • contribs)
Thank you again for everyones help. I took many pics of the family and the ones I tried to upload are before 1978. My Mother and of course Dad is dead, I have the originals, I am not sure who took what, but I have the originals not copies. My Step Mother is very old and ill...Roz Hogan... and I could ask her to sign off on them on ones she took (if I am told how to do that), she knew dad since he was 18, and grew up with him and took many photos like I did, p if that would help? I was told, but may have misunderstood that pictures taken before 1978 are in the public domain and all the pics I tried to upload were before 1978, but as you can tell I am such a novice...I am so worried to make a mistake and cause more work for everyone that I will follow every procedure, if you could guide me. I also have been sent from the Guardian newspaper Dad's full obituary which was written by their crime journalist a few days after dad died, if that helps with more verification?. I want to say sorry for all the difficulties I have given you ( many were made in ignorance) but I am so very very grateful and will comply with anything I need to kareenza. Kareenza (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
ps I would love to have the photos I uploaded with comments accepted but the Greece pic not put back up, but as I say above will comply with anything kareenza. Kareenza (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
@Rehman: @Rodhullandemu: Pinging Rehman and Rodhullandemu to deal with this one; I'm not super familiar with how Wikipedia handles copyrights and pictures... Sorry guys for bothering you! See message from Kareenza above mine. ZfJames (talk) 22:25, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Hello Kareenza. No worries, and no need to apologize. Lets take this calmly. A few questions:

  1. You said you took some of the pictures? Those should be fine if it is not used anywhere else. If they are used elsewhere, did they clearly credit you? If not, why not?
  2. For the pictures you didn't take, but wish to be uploaded; that may be tricky. It mostly depends on the year of publication, the current copyright holder (if copyright is not expired), and also if the copyright holder is willing to release it under a more relaxed license. As you said, you're not sure who took them. Are these photos published anywhere (internet or offline)?

Kind regards, Rehman 06:49, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Hi Rehman thank you for your kind words. I feel such an idiot. How it stands I would like to upload rare pics of dad taken in his twenties 1951-1960. A couple are in google images as they were part of my article in the Daily Mail ( I could use pics not in the article) but the DM pictures editor says the copyright is mine. I can choose pics that are not in the article therefore have never been in public domain and are before 1978. I especially want to put in the picture of all the great train robbers and dad together at a restaurant in Cannes taken by my step mother Roz who was Dads secretary back then, in fact she took most of them. As I said she is elderly but I can see her to sign them off but I do not know where or how I get a form to do that and how I get that to wiki etc...etc... and I am fretting very much about this, but without fantastic pics and rare ones it does not do justice to the article and all the help I have had. Any thoughts so very appreciated kareenza̞Kareenza (talk) 10:41, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi Kareenza. No worries. Based on your reply above, it seems like the solution is fairly simple. :-)
  1. For the pictures taken by you, which were never used anywhere else, you could simply upload them yourself. Citing as own work.
  2. For the pictures taken by you, but used elsewhere by others, they will have to amend and cite you as the author, or we will need an OTRS email from them confirming you as the author. Don't worry about OTRS, I/we will help with that later.
  3. For the pictures taken by Roz (your step-mom), those can be uploaded by you, but an OTRS email will be required here as well. Does Roz have an email/is able to send emails?
  4. For the pictures taken by Roz, but used elsewhere by others, a combination of process #2 and #3 will be needed.
--Rehman 14:28, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi Rehman firstly I think you are amazing and from bottom of my heart I appreciate and the help from everyone as this as in a way brings dad back to life but not in a glamorous way but in the price they all paid. There is a German documentary called The Curse of The Great Train Robbery and basically it was a curse. Anyways I am frightened to upload my own pics as my own and other pics were the start of all the troubles, but if you think special upload wizard is the way to go I will do that. Roz is in her late eighties, lovely, kind but not on pc at all but if there are release forms she has said she would be happy to sign them. I am sorry I do not know what an OTRS email is, but her pics are the best which she gave to me in a beautiful album as my birthday present. I think I will stick to the pics not used before taken by me for a couple of them. But what shall I do re roz? She has been ill and I would like to get her permission in writing soon as she is looking forward to seeing this page. She talks about him all the time and blames herself for his decline which is wrong. If there is any way she can send in a letter, from her address, signed and dated that I can upload but I know I have to stay within the boundaries of Wiki. Also do you know if the editing on the page is finishing but am very happy to leave it open and get it as good as it can although I feel bad I am not able to get it right myself
Fond wishes kareenzaKareenza (talk) 17:03, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi Kareenza. With regards to files you had uploaded to Commons (which were subsequently deleted): I've went ahead and temporarily restored your older uploads until this discussion is over. From the below, could you tell me which falls under #1, #2, #3, and #4, respectively?
  1. File:Terence Hogan and Roz Hogan in Cannes.jpg (by Roz, used by Daily Mail) - Unresolved
  2. File:Terence Hogan in Cannes reading the newspapers that the Great Train Robbery was a success 8 august 1963.jpg (by Karen, used by Daily Mail) - Unresolved
  3. File:Terence Hogan and daughter journalist karen hogan on beach 1974.jpg (by Karen) - Resolved
  4. File:Terence hogan and group of train robbers. Terence is blonde at looking at camera. The wives sit opposite.jpg (by Roz) - Unresolved
  5. File:Terence Hogan the mastermind behind the Eastcastle St Robbery in 1952.jpg (by Roz) - Unresolved
  6. File:Terry aged twenty lost in thought when his life from the slums of his childhood was turning around.jpg (by Roz) - Unresolved
Do you have any other photos you wish to upload apart from the above? If yes: If they fall under #1, you can go ahead and upload without fear. The rest, including any from Roz, let's discuss after we sort the above bunch of files. Regards, Rehman 02:30, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, every day I wake up and there is somethin good happening thanks to you. Dad gave me cameras all through my life. The one with me and him was on a kodak self timer taken by me karen hogan on beach 1974 (#3)
The one reading newspapers in Cannes was by me, even thought I was young (#2).
The rest are all by roz. I looked through my others and they are too personal as include sister and brother. As I mentioned the group of robbers and wives is brilliant taken by roz as it has the drivers of the Eastcastle robbery as well as the GTrain robbery. Roy James is there, a fasinating character maybe we could cite this, Roy James was one of Britains biggest getaway drivers, he is in the photo you reuploaded. He was Bernie Ecclestones main driver until he lost sponsorship and turned to crime. He spent all of his young life in prison and when released was unbalanced and went back in. Roz now is even offering to come in and see somebody at wiki bless herǃǃǃ, I told her things dont work that way. So, I dont know what to do but thank you so much kareenzaKareenza (talk) 08:01, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the info, Karen.
  • File #2, taken by you, is currently used by Daily Mail. Would it be possible for them to edit the page/images and credit you as the photographer? Or, for Daily Mail to email us confirming that you are the photographer? On a separate note, you might want to upload a properly scanned replacement later (as it seems that the uploaded file here is a photo of a photo). A replacement can be uploaded over this file later by clicking on the "Upload a new version of this file" button in the file page.
  • File #3, could you please elaborate further on how that photo was taken with a self-timer? Because I notice that it was taken at the beach - near the shore. Was someone else behind the camera? Waterproof tripod? Don't mind the questions, just making sure there wont be any trouble later. The Daily Mail situation doesn't apply here, since it seems like the file isn't used elsewhere.
  • Noted that files #1, #4, #5, #6, were taken by Roz. I will send you an email with regards to proceeding with OTRS on those (a printed/signed/scanned doc from Roz should work), hopefully today or tomorrow (I'm in UTC+05:30).
Also noted that you don't have any more files to upload apart from the above (please correct me if I'm wrong). So the process should be fairly straightforward now. Best regards, Rehman 10:27, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi I write for good health at Daily Mail, current article Head bumps and lumps "do we need our head examined?" I don't want to bother my employers (although freelance) any more. So we better just leave that one which is a real shame as he has just read the papers that say the robbery happened. I asked the pics editor and my ex editor and they told me I owned the copyright, I dont want to go back again to them as I will look pretty stupid, which I am!. You can find me on linkedin and see what I do. I remember with my beloved camera piling it up on tables etc and balancing on books. No one else took that pic. You are so fab at your job you could see it was a photo of photo which is correct but i have original in my hands and can upload. I think having said all this I will emial the pictures editor and ask. If they email me with permission can I forward the email to you or do you need a direct email and where would they send it? thank a million times kareenza Kareenza (talk) 11:21, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
ok just emailed the editor again and hope they will reply many thank kareenzaKareenza (talk) 11:31, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Rehman just received this back so they have forwarded my email to syndication re copyright this is the email they have forwarded and sent copy to me, I hope the answer is soon but this alone tells you something I hope
"Hi Karen, I’m copying in Danny Howell who is our syndication guru. Danny, it seems copyright to some personal pictures than ran in You Mag a few years back have wrongly been attributed as copyright The Daily Mail on Mail Online, when in fact Karen, the author of the piece, and her family own the copyright to these pictures. How do we rectify this? Apparently, Karen is having trouble using the pics now as recognition software is flagging up that she isn’t the copyright holder… B"
--kareenzaKareenza (talk) 11:42, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
rehman...This is the answer from the syndication officer Danny Howell at THE MAIL GROUP, I can forward this to you from his office at DM if that would help
Hi Karen
It’s been while, I hope you are well.
Yes, personal photos are your copyright.
When people Google your name they see the MailOnline link/article, photos not credited to the MailOnline or You Magazine."
--kareenzaKareenza (talk) 12:15, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Hello. Noted on the above, and your emails to me. I'm afraid if Daily Mail (Danny, or anyone from DM) cannot add your name on the article, or email us directly confirming you as the author, we would not be able to host any of the images currently on the Daily Mail article (in our case, #1 and #2). Alternatively, if you feel it is right, you could connect me to Danny via email, and I can guide him on how he could send that mail. That way, you could secure your copyright on all the images currently on the Daily Mail article. I'll let you make the call here.
With regards to photos by Roz which aren't used anywhere else (#4, #5, #6), I will send you an email template soon, which you could simply print/get signed by Roz/scan/email. You could also use this opportunity to also include any other images by Roz, which you'd like to upload.
Will contact you via email. Best regards, Rehman 12:25, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Dont know what I would do with youRehman I think we are close to getting the pics up and so sorry that you had to put so much time into this. Okay I have just emailed Danny to see if he will accept an email from you and confirm authorship and copyright. I am sure it will be okay. I will go around to see Roz when I have the form. I was taking her out for lunch on Sunday anyway. Is there any limit to how many pics can go on a wiki page...thank you for everything kareenzaKareenza (talk) 14:25, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Happy to help, Karen. I've received the emails; will action accordingly. Regarding number of pictures, there is no limit per se. Since the subject is notable, more images are welcomed. Have a nice evening. Rehman 16:38, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Gosh I dont know what to say you are INCREDIBLEǃǃǃ come and work for us at the paperǃǃǃ kareenzaKareenza (talk) 16:44, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the compliments :-) I've sent that email to the Daily Mail contact which you provided. Let's see how that goes. Have a nice weekend. Best, Rehman 10:33, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
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