User talk:Mithril/Archive 2010

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File:Helix.pomatia.pharynx.jpg

Latest comment: 14 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

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--Snek01 (talk) 19:44, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Answered here. Mithril (talk) 13:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

File:Alexandrium_tam2_f1.jpg

Latest comment: 13 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

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Pieter Kuiper (talk) 17:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

No problem. I've just cropped that image because it was used in the russian wikipedia. Mithril (talk) 21:59, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Re: wing veins of crane flies

Latest comment: 13 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hi Mithril, I'm not sure if I understood correctly your message. You wrote: I've access to some identification keys on dipterans and found there the following phrase about tipulids: "Four branches of R have junctions with the edge of the wing in most species. In a few species only three R veins join with the edge since R2 is reduced." That's strange because on your image R2 doesn't join with C but only with R1 and R3.

I think that this phrase or the interpretation is confused: in a few species only three R veins join with the edge since R2 is reduced. R2 is always reduced and joining to R1, so, the first stem of R is R1+2, the second R3, the third R4 and the fourth R5. Some crane flies (Tipula sp.) species have only three branches of R riching the edge because R4 is fused with R5 (Alexander & Byers, 1981, in Manual of Nearctic Diptera, Vol. 1).

You wrote also: There's also mentioned that four medial veins exist.

There are two different interpretation of the origin of M4 vein. According to Hennig and more old works, the posterior branch of M has in primitive Diptera four stems (M1, M2, M3, M4. The anterior branch is lost in all insects). But McAlpine et al. in the Manual of Nearctic Diptera assumed that M4 is the first stem of the anterior branch of Cu, so, M has only three branches or fewer. Cite McAlpine (Manual of Nearctic Diptera, vol 1):

MP [posterior media] has only three free branches, M1 to M3 (Comstock 1918, Friend 1942, Hennig 1973). M4 never occurs as a separate, free vein in the Diptera, and for practical taxonomic purposes it seems preferable to adopt Comstock's (1918) recommendation to omit any reference to it in the designation of veins throughout the order. Comstock (1918) believed that it coalesced with either M3 or CuA1. Tillyard (1926) interpreted CuA1 as a free M4. However, the distinctive nature of the cubital fork throughout the Diptera and the strong convexity of both its branches (as opposed to a primitively concave condition in all branches of MP) indicate that the vein in question is primarily derived from CuA rather than from M4.
This interpretation is not accepted by all Authors (p.a. Amorim & Yeates in a recent work have interpreted this vein as M4), but most dipterists use CuA1 instead of M4 in all works after McAlpine et al. (1981-1987) in their works in the Manual of Nearctic Diptera.

I think that your keys are not recent. Greetings --gian_d (talk) 18:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the answer and usefull references! Mithril (talk) 19:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)