User talk:Nilfanion/Dartmoor

Any obvious significant subject areas missing?--Nilfanion (talk) 21:17, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Think "crosses" are significant - there is a wiki page. --Herby ^{talk thyme} 09:40, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I put them under "ancient monuments". That's not not entirely accurate, but its right idea I think :) On that sort of thing I think we need every named one (Nun's cross, Childe's tomb etc) plus a representative selection of the generic "cairns", which would mean at least one of each type listed in this NPA paper, and naturally include any we "come across" have a very photogenic view. Trying to get pictures of all the cairns on the moors is excessive I think!--Nilfanion (talk) 10:40, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough - I guess I was thinking "wiki pages"

We could do with Smalljim to advise on mining. Again all mine workings would be a rather long job but I'm guessing he could come up with key/representative ones. The whole "industrial archaeology" thing is pretty extensive. Sj & I both have Helen Harris's book for example, still fairly definitive AFAIK and I have Worth's and a number of others. I know he also has a number of books that I do not have. --Herby ^{talk thyme} 10:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense to me, we could certainly benefit from his expertise on that area! I think we need full lists for: Tors, Reservoirs/Dams, Rivers (what we need for that is another question!), modern settlements, nature reserves and probably the churches too. Particularly with the archaeology, the best way to handle is a representative selection to include the full range of "types" and any individual notable examples.--Nilfanion (talk) 10:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

OK - shall we work in your user space for now anyway (beats splitting it up)?

Dams/reservoirs - piece of cake :)

Rivers - happy to take a stab at it. I always think it is hard to "discuss" an idea compared to an actual suggestion? Maybe - organised as "major" (the ones we can name without looking at the map :)) &, indented, tributaries?

Archaeology - maybe take a look here for some pointers (& here? --Herby ^{talk thyme} 13:20, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I think we should just "do it" as opposed to discussing now :) I think we should leave it in my userspace for now (create any subpages you want) and we can move this page to Commons:Dartmoor if and when we feel that its matured.--Nilfanion (talk) 13:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Scope and definition

The big question I've tried to avoid in the initial stages, but nonetheless needs addressing: What is Dartmoor? Is it identical to Dartmoor National Park? I suspect that towns like Ivybridge, Tavistock and Okehampton have always been described as on the "edge" of the moors. This means the modern boundary is pretty good of course. However, the exact boundary of the national park has obviously been chosen for practical modern reasons and is pretty arbritary.

The specific problem that has me thinking on this is the Lee Moor area. Wotter and the clay works surrounding it were (understandably) excluded from the NP. This means Crownhill and Headon Downs are outside the national park, whilst Hanger Down is within it; is there any real difference between the 3? Furthermore there are (at least) 3 tors in this area: are they "Dartmoor tors" or just "tors"?--Nilfanion (talk) 21:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

OK - a quick reaction - as defined by National Park. However I'll think about it & get back! --Herby ^{talk thyme} 08:58, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

That's my gut feeling too of course. The only other definition I think we can use that is workable is the geological one. Question is is this tor a tor on Dartmoor? (I've categorised it as if it wasn't).--Nilfanion (talk) 11:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

View type shots

Not sure where you think this might be useful? (if at all). Smalljim also has a view type one which he has annotated with the tor names on - useful? Cheers --Herby ^{talk thyme} 10:49, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not sure where panoramic/wide view shots properly belong. Thing is they are definitely desirable to have, but can't really list ones that are desirable in advance: Can't say "we need a picture of this set of tors from this spot". I mean, "Dartmoor from Bodmin Moor" is that a worthwhile shot? How about from Dunkery Beacon.. etc

Some representative shots of the landscape as opposed to individual features are needed: "North Dartmoor", "South Dartmoor" and "East Dartmoor" are all large SSSIs, there's the 3 military ranges, the river valleys... We should encourage that type, perhaps have a list of "views of landscape"? They are certainly more useful than this image.--Nilfanion (talk) 11:39, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Re landscape stuff - more discussion I guess - on the Dartmoor pages somewhere I think. Cheers --Herby ^{talk thyme} 08:02, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I know we want these shots, but still can't make my mind up on placement. If we aim for images of the river valleys that will cover a bunch of them, but not all possible ones. Maybe we should have a seperate page for "Overview" or something. These are typical shots of the Dartmoor landscape as a whole as opposed to individual features - that is too important a category to dump into "miscellaneous".Naturally everything is mushrooming now from the simple "get pics of the tors!"--Nilfanion (talk) 23:23, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Maps

Worth bearing in mind that Smalljim has some out of copyright OS maps & for some features the moor does not change that much (fr'instance!). --Herby ^{talk thyme} 12:11, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Categories

The current layout is:

Dartmoor

Agriculture in Dartmoor

Animals of Dartmoor

Archaeology of Dartmoor

Sabine Baring-Gould

Buildings in Dartmoor

Burrator

Dartmoor Forest

Dartmoor Granite

Dartmoor Way

Environment of Dartmoor

Gates in Dartmoor

Geography of Dartmoor

Hiking in Dartmoor

The Hound of the Baskervilles

Industry of Dartmoor

Lands common to Bridestowe and Sourton

Maps of Dartmoor

Military training on Dartmoor

Panoramics of Dartmoor

Populated places in Dartmoor

Remote views of Dartmoor

Signs in Dartmoor

Transport of Dartmoor

Trees in Dartmoor

West Buckfastleigh

At time of writing the present 2nd level categories are:

1. Archaeology of Dartmoor
2. Sabine Baring-Gould
3. Okehampton Castle
4. Dartmoor Pony
5. Postbridge
6. Postbridge Clapper Bridge
7. Princetown
8. Dartmoor Railway
9. Dartmoor Reservoirs
10. Dartmoor Rivers
11. The Hound of the Baskervilles
12. Dartmoor Tors

That needs some rationalisation, most urgent subcat is probably "Settlements of Dartmoor". As for 3rd and lower level... Thoughts?--Nilfanion (talk) 12:35, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Hum - first reactions

add

1. Industry of D (covering more modern stuff - china clay etc - as well as older)
2. People of D (there are a few that are quite important & SBG goes there
3. Bodies of Water of D (I hate the term but it exists at high level, covers rivers, reservoirs, leats (should be a cat)
4. Settlements of D for sure
5. Something about Transport to catch bridges railways, roads (even tracks)?
6. Wildlife of (there are more than just ponies there :))

Then sub from there?

Thinking, cheers --Herby ^{talk thyme} 16:18, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Think that covers basics... Looking around Category:Devon and similar to get consistent names (and only addressing top level):

1. Archaeology of D
2. Agriculture of D (possibly a subcat of industry?)
3. Structures on D
4. Environment of D (wildlife as a subcat, also includes SSSIs etc)
5. Geography of D (more than just the tors, also somewhere we can dump the "bodies of water")
6. Industry of D
7. Maps of D
8. People of D
9. Transport of D
10. Towns and Villages in D

That would mean Category:Dartmoor would have individual subjects in subcategories except for the Hounds of Baskervilles?--Nilfanion (talk) 21:31, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Also add "Dartmoor panoramas", seeing as we are starting to get a few of those now.--Nilfanion (talk) 10:09, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, the capitalisation is incorrect in a lot of the current articles: "Dartmoor tors" should be lower case for example. But if we are going to do a major move that leads to the question: "Dartmoor tors" or "Tors of Dartmoor"? I think I favour the second actually.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:03, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Some of the "X of.." stuff seems plain weird to me (not a fan of "Bodies of water of") however Tors of seems fine (& presumably Hills of too) to link with top level cats seems fine. Won't have much time to look at stuff today/tomorrow anyway. --Herby ^{talk thyme} 12:15, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

First pass

OK, created:

1. Buildings (and Bridges as a subcategory)
2. Geography
3. Industry
4. Panoramics
5. Towns/Villages
6. Transport

Category:Dartmoor is starting to look cleaner as a result. However, I'm a bit worried about the inconsistent conjunctions - which I just inherited from the "Devon" or "England" category. Should we just stick to "X of Dartmoor" for everything? I can bot-run to fix cats if necessary.--Nilfanion (talk) 10:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Cats (post-geograph)

Obviously the sheer quantity of stuff from Geograph is forcing a more updated category tree. In longer term I imagine we will end up with a ton more categories (Category:Vixen Tor for example), but the tree structure will be the same. Suggestions as to how to handle the important photo types:

Landscapes:

• By administrative region (generally the CP - may split from village cat at some point).
• Any SSSI or other special region appropriate to photo
• By subject type - Tors, woodland, valley, whatever :)

Buildings and archaeology:

• Admin region
• At least one X in Dartmoor, and X in Devon/England if a more precise subtype is available.
• Listed status, NT/EH ownership etc

Wildlife (but not ponies):

• Admin region
• Species
• Any SSSI relevant
• X in Dartmoor (eg "Trees in Dartmoor")

Non-point features such as rivers, leats and roads should get their own categories as appropriate, and these should be used in landscapes where they are a prominent subject.

I think that covers enough to work with for the time being .... :)--Nilfanion (talk) 02:20, 17 February 2010 (UTC)