File talk:Outline Map of Crimea.svg

Dear Bobek: I think we all can agree that Ukraine has lost the control over Crimea and it is Russia which is having it. So it is senseless to show Russia as a foreign country with no influence (dark grey) and Ukraine as the only country which claims Crimea (light grey).

Dear Nicolay Sidorov: I think we all can agree that it is disputed that Crimea belongs to Russia. Most countries in the world and the UN think that Crimea belongs to Ukraine. I do not think that Ukraine is a failed state (and I am sure that you belong to a minority if you think this). Even if Ukraine was a failed state it would not mean anything concerning the colour of Ukraine in this map. NNW 21:09, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Hmm... Okay. Where is grey color filling of Azad Kashmir and Northern Territories (Pakistan occupation) on this map [1] ? In UN documents this territories appear as a part of indian Jammu and Kashmir state. If you agree to take the map of Pakistan as an example, I agree that between the Crimea and other part of Russia on this map the border was drawn again. But the color has to indicate accessory de facto (i.e. Russia)--Nicolay Sidorov (talk) 21:46, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

We will not talk about Kashmir maps here, it is a different case. If you think File:Pakistan location map.svg should be changed then we can talk about it there. (Btw I definitely would agree that the location maps are not always made in the same de facto style but this is due to the way they were developed and made.) NNW 22:16, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

)) We talk about UN, not about Kashmir (Free State of Jammu and Kashmir). But if you say that it is necessary to meet on an UN position, be consecutive. Let's adhere to uniformity. There is not distinctions between the Crimea and Kashmir at the position in UN documents. Distinction is expressed in other, that the USA and EU recognize Azad Kashmir as Pakitan's part, and the Crimea part of Ukraine. If you suggest to meet on a position only these countries on such questions, directly you speak about it. --Nicolay Sidorov (talk) 05:59, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

I never wrote that we have to meet the UN position. I wrote that most countries and the UN think that Crimea belongs to Ukraine. That means that Crimea is disputed. (And this is different from Kashmir where UN neither says it belongs to India nor to Pakistan. But again: This is not about Kashmir here.). NNW 10:26, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

I will not argue with you. The main thing for me is the Crimea more never becomes a part of Ukraine, and Ukraine (the artificial state) will break up soon. If you don't want to display a real state of affairs on the map, I won't interfere. Goodbye.--Nicolay Sidorov (talk) 11:04, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Hello, how you all doing? Have any of you seen the section below? russavia (talk) 11:42, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, I did. Unfortunately this is only a solution for Commons’ problem with editwarring. Unlike photos maps for Wikipedia will always bring special questions, problems and discussions to Commons. Creating several versions is not a satisfying solution – for nobody but Commons administrators. :o) This is about interpretive predominance vs neutral point vs patriotism vs de jure vs de facto in an international project. Another version of a photo of a kitten is okay, another version of a political map can be seen as an offence. NNW 15:09, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Seriously guys, just do what needs to be done, so that projects can get the media we could have had to them yesterday. Forget about all the nationalistic bullshit (everyone!) and make the 3 maps, describe them adequately, and then we can all be happy, and I can possibly unprotect this file. russavia (talk) 15:35, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Forget about all the nationalistic bullshit. I won't believe that you believe in that simple solution. It doesn't work in real life, it won't work in Commons. NNW 15:43, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

It will if all parties agree to think in the way that I have presented below. NNW, perhaps as a Commons administrator you could lead here and show how it could be done. Others will be sure to follow. :) russavia (talk) 15:46, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

I started it with uploading File:Russia European part laea location map.svg as another version of File:European Russia laea location map.svg and there are two versions of the Ukraine location map now. I tried to calm discussion with a new template {{De facto boundaries}} because de facto is much easier to handle than de jure, even for nationalists. On the other hand it has been me who has made most of the location maps and it has been me who try to keep them up-to-date for years. This is impossible if there are two, three, four versions of every map. And there are many maps showing Ukraine and Russia. I have no solution for this problem. Btw anybody could have uploaded the versions that you suggest below: they all can be found in the file history. What do you think why nobody has done it by now? NNW 16:09, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok, at least those who prefer a neutral version can take File:Outline Map of Crimea (disputed status).svg now. NNW 17:02, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Files protected

I have protected the file for 2 weeks so that discussion can occur on this map, and so that any potential edit warring does not affect projects/other sites using this file.

On Commons we do not get involved in disputes on such issues, we simply host media and let individual editors chose which files they use on their articles.

Here is a possible solution:

1. Upload 3 maps. One which shows Crimea as part of Ukraine. One which shows Crimea as part of Russia. One which shows Crimea as neither but rather with a disputed status. I would recommend that each file be named something like File:Outline Map of Crimea (Ukraine).svg, File:Outline Map of Crimea (Russia).svg, File:Outline Map of Crimea (disputed status).svg.
2. Move this file as it stands now to File:Outline Map of Crimea (Ukraine).svg after other files are done/uploaded. This will need discussion here.

This is how easy the solution is, and we avoid getting involved in the dispute that is playing out in the real world; thereby saving bad blood between editors.

So hopefully within 2 weeks editors will have sorted this issue out. russavia (talk) 22:16, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Category

Hi !

Because this file is protected, someone can move it to the more neutral Category:Location maps of Crimea and quit the actual categories ? Thanks. --Shadowxfox (talk) 10:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Borders

Needed update the borders of country.--Region190 (talk) 18:31, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

No. If you do not like this map you can take File:Outline Map of Crimea in Russia.png or File:Outline Map of Crimea (disputed status).svg instead. NNW 20:40, 11 April 2014 (UTC)