Philiptdotcom

Taxonavigation vs. category

Hi. I've noticed you are removing the parent category when a taxonavigation exists (example). Both are not exclusive. Since taxonavigation does not automatically add the article to the parent category (this is a mere navigation table), and since every category must belong to another one, the parent category must not be removed. Thanks! — Xavier, 00:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

trying 3rd-level(?) indent... otherwise, I got run-on with your text

Aloha! (don't know how to indent this...) (I just wrote a long explanation, and the window annoyingly disappeared... ARGH!) Anyway, thanks for your feedback, and sorry for the confusion.

No problem. I'm always glad to see someone spending some time working on this wiki. :) This is usually not appreciated but allow me to answer inside you text because I'm in a hurry and there are many things to deal with. Thanks. — Xavier, 02:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

However, things still aren't right. When some species-based images (SBIs) are in "category:gymnothorax" and some SBIs are on species-named "pages," it creates DUAL categorization systems (not good in wikis, as you know). What needs to happen is that each SBI needs to be placed on the appropriate species PAGE. (The only time an image should be directly in the category "gymnothorax" is when it's NOT IDENTIFIABLE to species.) BY DEFINITION, every species of something IS a finer-resolution category than the genus of that thing.

Rule #1: every image/media _must_ be categorize. Rule #2: don't put the media in a category you aren't sure about (thus, in case of doubt, choose a broader/upper cat.)

Pages (galleries), when properly used, are not redundant with categories. In no way is it a dual categorization systems since galleries are not a categorization system. Conversely categories are not a place to verbosely tell things about a subject. Galleries and categories can and must coexist. — Xavier, 02:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

How do I create "pages"? How do I "put" an existing image onto a "page"?

Create a gallery (page) like any WP article. Just put some text in it, with a gallery (<gallery> tag - see Gymnothorax funebris source). — Xavier, 02:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, I notice that when you(?) fixed the taxonavigation, you're including the genus name in the "|Species ...|" section of the taxonavigation structure. From a relational database standpoint [and, therefore, I suspect from the Taxonavigation standpoint], this is incorrect: the only thing it does is allow for the possibility of a mismatch between the value in the "|Genus ...|" section, which is [by definition] impossible. For example, doing it the way you did, you could possibly type:

... Genus: Gymnothorax • Species: TiggerTheWinnieThePoohTiger polygonius

...in which case, which is the actual genus? "Gymnothorax" or "TiggerTheWinnieThePoohTiger"? IT SHOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE FOR THIS DISCREPANCY TO EXIST.

Right, but I'm not deciding anything. I'm following the rules or the guidelines. This is not a database, just a wiki. The species IS Gymnothorax polygonius, not just polygonius. Some people write G. polygonius but here the field must match an existing category that's why I changed it from Category:polygonius to Category:Gymnothorax polygonius which exists. — Xavier, 02:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

In fact, if you do it that way, it is INCONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE STRUCTURE. In EVERY OTHER CASE, the previous category is the next-highest rank. For example, with:

Domain: Eukaryota • Regnum: Animalia • Phylum: Chordata • Subphylum: Vertebrata • Superclassis: Osteichthyes • Classis: Actinopterygii • Ordo: Anguilliformes • Familia: Muraenidae • Genus: Gymnothorax • Species: Gymnothorax polygonius Poey, 1875

...Actinopterygii is the class for Anguilliformes; Anguilliformes is the order for Muraenidae; Muraenidae is the family for Gymnothorax; and Gymnothorax should be the genus for polygonius (ONLY!!).

Your comments/feedback would be very much appreciated.

Philiptdotcom 01:40, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

As an example, a species is "Gymnothorax minor", not just "minor". Can you imagine the number of species whose second name is minor? Same goes for polygonius.

OK, here I gave you the basis, now I must go. Hope you'll feel fine on this wiki.

PS: in the species area, galleries and categories are certainly debatable (and they are debated eagerly ;-) but I generally try to avoid disputes on this matter. I'm just observing rules and guidelines I have learned here. — Xavier, 02:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info! I think there's room for improvement on how the genus+species thing works, but I don't have enough energy to set forth a debate (not with you, but with whomever it is that set up the Taxonavigation system [i.e., any classification that's done at species level should programmatically combine genus+species and not (redundantly) include the genus in the "species" field]). I definitely agree that no one should EVER use "G. species": if it's used the way you're using it (which evidently it is), the genus should NEVER be abbreviated (because there is not necessarily any context in places it might be used). (BTW, I much prefer replying "inside the text" like you did!)

Thanks again for your patience with my learning, and taking the time to discuss things with me.

Aloha, Philiptdotcom 03:53, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Aloha ! It was my pleasure. Now I believe I understand what you mean: you don't want to change the display of information but you'd like the template taxonavigation to allow users to omit the first word (genus) while specifying the species, right ? It's a good idea but changing this would not be that easy, for two reasons: first, presently the taxonavigation template has no notion of genus and species (they are only words) therefore it can not deduce the first word of the species from the genus. Second, it would require to change every page that use the taxonavigation template, which is a huge task, but I guess a (ro)bot could deal with this. Anyway, if I get it right, this is a good idea that could be worth mentioning on the {{Taxonavigation}} discussion page. Cheers. — Xavier, 12:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

deletion requests

When asking for deletion please use one of the processes listed at Commons:Deletion guidelines. Specifically, you could have tagged Category:Pygloplites with {{Speedy}}, noting the typo. The only way an admin would know of your request on that category talk page is if he or she stumbled into it, which I did, but it's not a dependable method. Also, please make sure to put new categories into umbrella categories to allow navigation up and down the category tree. Thanks, BanyanTree 20:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, and for your patience.

I do try to ensure that I give all new categories a parent (umbrella) category; just slipped on this one. Sorry! Philiptdotcom 00:24, 16 October 2007 (UTC)