Category talk:Higher education institutions in Wales
- This discussion affects this category, some of its subcategories, and the categories Category:Universities and Category:Colleges. Also it may affect partially the Category:Universities and colleges.
The subcategories of Category:Universities and colleges by country were named following the U.S. model, but this is incompatible with the other countries' system and real situation.
In Moldova universities and colleges are absolutely different things; they are on different educational levels (!) and thus can't be put together in one category named "Universities and colleges in Moldova" - it's nonsense. There should be Category:Universities in Moldova and Category:Colleges in Moldova.
A similar situation is in many Eastern European countries, especially in post-Soviet states, notable Russia, Ukraine, etc. etc.
In Romania, as you can see in ro:Colegiu, a college is, in fact, a lyceum with only the title of "colegiu" (college) or "colegiu național" (national college).
So, I propose and request to (re-)create/restore the Category:Universities and Category:Colleges, and their subcategories, and to allow further existence of these categories standalone, not redirected, for countries where a joint "Category:Universities and colleges" is not appropriate. XXN, 14:16, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
- Maybe the categories that aren't specific to any country should be called "post-secondary educational institutions". That would be in line with the categories for primary and secondary schools. Categories specific to countries would use colleges and/or universities as appropriate for the named country. --Auntof6 (talk) 15:47, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
Comment I don't like much the term Universities and colleges too: for example in the United Kingdom and in Europe in general colleges are a costituent part of a university (i.e. a school of law, or medicine) or even an high school. In Italy collegio means a school - secondary or higher - where students are resident. But since College in English has not the same meaning as Collegio in Italian or Colegiu in Romanian (to give an example, in English Pavement is not the same as Pavimento in Italian though the root is the same: in Italian Pavimento is the floor, and in English is a boardwalk or the surface of a street) but is more extensive, and since the categories of Commons are in English, we must take College as equivalent to an universitary institution. I suppose that the unification of categories "Universities" and "Colleges" was done just because in the latter were falling educational institution that didn't meet the criteria of "College" as intended in English language. As I said I don't like it too, but this is the less ambiguous categorization we might have. As Auntof6 says, post-secondary educational institutions might be fine, even as mother category, but I am not sure that many people would recognize immediately it as equivalent of "University / College". -- SERGIO (aka the Blackcat) 16:03, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
- Well, Blackcat, an aditional motivation for me to start this discussion was the fact that some time ago you renamed Category:Universities in Moldova to Category:Universities and colleges in Moldova, ignoring the fact that early this year I renamed this category to a correct name. In my plans was to create Category:Colleges in Moldova and to populate it with proper content. For example Category:Railway Technical College, Bălți has nothing to do with any university of Moldova and can't be put together with higher educational institutions in a common category. BTW, in place of colleges we can put academies in a common category with universities. --XXN, 20:53, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Is there a common name in all/most of countries for "post-secondary" education? F.e. in Russia we called it "higher education" (высшее образование in Russian)? --Igel B TyMaHe (talk) 11:14, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
- Keep. In the USA, and in all other places following the same model, the result of your proposal would be confusing. In countries where universities and colleges are significantly different, e.g. your Moldovan example, the solution is simple: create "Universities in Moldova" and "Colleges in Moldova" and make them subcategories. However, bear in mind that we follow English usage: do speakers of English typically call a Romanian lyceum a "college"? Greatly modifying our whole tree, based on non-English usage, is quite unhelpful. Nyttend (talk) 22:43, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
- This is what I want: for countries where it is appropriate, to have by two categories named "Universities in X" and "Colleges in X". We'll need some kind of template to append to those categories to not have them merged again to a mixed "Universities and colleges in X". People here are tempted to do an uniformization even if it's not needed. --XXN, 20:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
- The existence of this peculiar cat has had harming effects on other projects, AFAICS: In Wikidata we have two different categories about the universities in Turkey, item Q9032983 and Q7696450. Some WPs have linked their WP cats to one, and others to the other item. For some strange reason I cannot even merge them! When you want to go from here to WPs, through the given link, you can only go to "some" of them who have a category for Universities in Turkey and not to some others. Don't tell me please that our mistakes de not contribute to other mistakes... Please those people active in Wikidata and Wikipedias help to solve this (general) issue. E4024 (talk) 17:07, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
Rename Category:Universities and colleges to Category:Higher education institutions This would remain as a parent for both Category:Colleges and Category:Universities which can be used as appropriate to sort contents that specifically are one or the other, while not requiring such selection where it is not appropriate. "Universities and colleges" is a fundamentally flawed name, thus this rename improves compliance with the Hierarchic, Simplicity and Selectivity Principles. Note, this is the term used at higher education institution (Q38723).
@Auntof6, XXN, Blackcat, E4024, Nyttend, and Igel B TyMaHe: : Would you be okay with this so we can close this CfD and move forward? Josh (talk) 16:25, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Joshbaumgartner: yes, provided it's consistent through the whole tree, i.e. Higher education institutions in Italy, Higher education institutions in the United Kingdom and so on. -- Blackcat
17:16, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Blackcat: Understood, and yes, it would start at the top and have to be implemented through the tree, per the Universality Principle. Josh (talk) 17:24, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Joshbaumgartner: in this case you've my consent. This discussion has lasted 6 years and 3 months too much IMHO. -- Blackcat 17:26, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- @Joshbaumgartner: in this case you've my consent. This discussion has lasted 6 years and 3 months too much IMHO. -- Blackcat
- @Blackcat: Understood, and yes, it would start at the top and have to be implemented through the tree, per the Universality Principle. Josh (talk) 17:24, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- OK with me. -- Auntof6 (talk) 19:53, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
- Ok. --Igel B TyMaHe (talk) 19:24, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
| This category discussion has been closed. | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Consensus |  Resolved by consensus | |||
| Actions | Rename Category:Universities and colleges to Category:Higher education institutions | |||
| Participants | ||||
| Closed by | Josh (talk) 10:36, 30 January 2023 (UTC) | |||