File talk:The Muslim cemetery of Haifa in Nesher 2010.jpg

The correct information of this picture is: The entrance to the Haifa cemetery was built in 1934 in the middle of Nesher a Jewish little town. This was never a Ballad ash-Sheikh Cemetery. To access the cemetery, after passing through this entrance, you must walk under the highway overpass in the background, slightly crouched over, since it stands only about 4.5 - 5 feet above ground level. You can also go from the side of the cemetery. There is a road. No need to go under the bridge. See Article in ""Davar" newspaper dated November 21, 1934.

I hope that User:TheRealHuldra Will read carefully what I wrote here and will prefer the truth. After all this is an Encyclopedia. I took the pictures from the remains houses form Balad ash-Sheikh. I did not hide the truth. Hanay (talk) 04:09, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I´m afraid I do not read Hebrew. I only have the information from professor Khalidi´s book, and he tells another story. I will ask Tiamut (the uploader of the file) to join in the discussion, Cheers, TheRealHuldra (talk) 12:06, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Hanay, this is the cemetery that Sheikh Izzedine al-Qassam was buried in. Its a Muslim cemetery and having spent some time in it I can attest to the fact that many of the tombstones predate 1934 and all of them carry Arabic inscriptions (not Hebrew or English ones). The main entrance to the cemetery is accessed as I described. The side entrance you speak of is blocked by boulders on the road and there is no sign there indicating that it is a way by which to access the cemetery.

Don't take my word regarding the cemetery's identity however. See [1], [2], [3], all of whom describe it as the village cemetery of Balad ash-Shaykh, burial place of Sheikh Izzedine al-Qassam, and a Muslim cemetery. Tiamut (talk) 12:23, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I leave in Nesher, and I can assure you that there is no problem to enter to the cemetery from the side. If you do not believe me, I will take a picture, so you can see yourself. I know that Izzedine al-Qassam is berried in this cemetery. I saw his grave. But he did not live in Balad ash-Shaykh but in Haifa. That why he was berried in this cemetery. There is another cemetery in Tel Hanan that belonged to Balad ash-Shaykh, and it well preserved. Hanay (talk) 18:33, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

As a complete outsider, it sounds to me as if there were two Muslim cemeteries in the area that both went under the the name of "Balad ash-Shaykh"-cemetery? You both agree that the grave of Izzedine al-Qassam is in this cemetery, but Hanay, are you claiming it is not a Muslim graveyard? All the sources that I have seen (the ones Tiamut gave, and prof. Khalidi) calls the graveyard where Izzedine al-Qassam is, for "Balad ash-Shaykh"...but a village or town might of course have had more than one graveyard. Hanay, could you please tell me, are the gravestones in this cemetery with Arabic, or Hebrew, or English script? And Tiamut say she has seen gravestones there with Arabic script, predating 1934? Cheers, TheRealHuldra (talk) 00:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

The cemetery where al-Qassam is buried is Muslim. But it was never Balad ash-Shaykh's cemetery it was Haifa's cemetery. al-Qassam was citizen of the city Haifa. What you should do is change the category of this picture and change back to my description. This cemetery was built in 1934 in the middle of the town Nesher. The citizens of Nesher and Yagur begged the Waqf not to do it, but they ignored they request. This cemetery used by the citizens of Balad ash-Shaykh to shoot to the Huts of Nesher. you should learn the truth. you all the time so occupied with your political agenda instead of learning the truth Hanay (talk) 06:16, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

At least eight English language sources disagree with your assessment - all of them calling it the cemetery of Balad ash-Shaykh. One Hebrew language source doesn't cancel all those other sources out. Tiamut (talk) 08:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

תמונת הכניסה לשער של בית הקברות בעיר נשר

בית הקברות המוסלמי שנמצא באמצע העיר נשר בלב שכונת נשר שהוקמה בשנת 1923 אינו בית הקברות של בלד א-שייח'. זה בית קברות מוסלמי של חיפה שהוקם בשנת 1934 בלב השכונה היהודית במקום בו שכנו לפני כן צריפי תושבי נשר. תושבי נשר ויגור התחננו בפני הווקף לא להקים את בית הקברות שם, אבל הווקף לא נענה. בית הקברות היה מקור להתקפות של תושבי בלד א-שייח' על תושבי נשר וצריפיהם. מתוכו נהגו תושבי בלד א-שייח' לירות לעבר נשר. כתבה בנושא ניתן לראות בארכיון של העיתון "דבר" כאן עז א-דין אל קאסאם נקבר בבית קברות זה כי הוא היה תושב העיר חיפה , וזה היה בית הקברות המוסלמי של חיפה. לבלד א-שייח' היה בית קברות אחר על ההר שקיים עד היום בלב שכונת תל חנן בעיר נשר . לצערי ניסיוני לתקן את המידע המופיע באנגלית על התמונה לא צלחו . חשוב שהאמת לכל מי שרוצה לדעת אותה תהיה ידועה Hanay (talk) 03:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

You have one source in Hebrew (that you didn't even bother to provide a translation for, for your fellow editors). On the other hand, we have the following:

• Sacred landscape: the buried history of the Holy Land since 1948 (2002) by Mêrôn Benveniśtî: "The most well known abandoned cemetery is located in the large village of Balad al-Sheikh near Haifa, now the town of Nesher. Its reputation stems from the fact that it is the burial place of Sheikh 'Izz a-Din al Qassam..." (page 297)
• Zionism and Arabism in Palestine and Israel (1982) by Elie Kedourie and Sylvia Kedourie: "The funeral cortege which leftHaifa for the Muslim cemetery at Balad al-Shaykh became an impressive national demonstration ... his grave [Qassam's at Balad al-Shaykh became a place of pilgrimage..." (page 72).
• Hamas: The Islamic Resistance Movement (2010) by Beverley Milton-Edwards and Stephen Farrell: "Hours later the cortege arrived at Qassam's final resting place in the cemetery of Balad el-Sheikh." (page 27)
• Constructing a sense of place: architecture and the Zionist discourse (2004) by Haim Yacobi: "The grave of Iz A-Din el-Kassam in Balad ash-Sheikh graveyard, Nesher, Haifa." (page 287)
• Comrades and enemies: Arab and Jewish workers in Palestine, 1906-1948 (1996) by Zachary Lockman: "The Nesher cement factory, where as we have seen the issue of Hebrew labour surfaced so contentiously in the 1920s and 1930s, was located near Balad al-Shaykh, and the village's cemetery ontained the tomb of Shaykh 'Izz al-Din al-Qassam ..." (page 353)

There are also many many more sources saying that the cemetery Izz al-Din al-Qassam was buried in, the one shown in this picture, was the cemetery of Balad ash-Shaykh. That it is now in Nesher does not mean it was always in Nesher. Nesher's lands no doubt expanded to encompass those of Balad ash-Shaykh after it was destroyed, just as has been the case with other Jewish localities situated beside Palestinian Arab localities that were destroyed in 1948. I'm sorry, but I prefer what tens of reliable contemporary English-language sources have to say about this subject over what one Hebrew language newpaper report in the early 20th century has to say about it. Tiamut (talk) 08:09, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

"::מכיוון שאת קוראת עברית, את יכולה בקלות להבין את הקישור. אם אני מבינה נכון אתה גרה לא רחוק מנשר. אני מוכנה לקחת אותך לביקור במקום ולהראות ולהסביר לך. בית הקברות המוסלמי הזה הוא של חיפה. ואני מוכנה גם לקחת אותך לביקור בבית הקברות של בלד -א שייח. בית הקברות נמצא ליד בלד א-שייח אבל הוא לא של בלד א-שייח. נשר הוקמה לפני בית הקברות הזה. יש היום תערוכה באוניברסיטת חיפה בשם 100 שנות מיפוי ששם אפשר לראות מפה של הבריטים עם האזור של נשר מ-1932 שבו בית הקברות לא קיים ומ-1942 שבו בית הקברות קיים.. הרי בבלד א-שייח קברו גם לפני 1934. חבל מאד שהאג'נדה הפוליטית לא מאפשרת לך לראות את האמת. השאלה היא מדוע אל קאסאם שהיה תושב חיפה ייקבר בבית קברות של בלד א-שיח? אין בזה כל היגיון. אני אתרגם את הקטע מעיתון דבר. למרות שאין לי ספק שאת הבנת מה כתוב בו Hanay (talk) 06:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Hanay; I don´t speak/read Hewbrew (or Arabic..I´m Scandinavian, and understand all the Scandinavian languages, though..) But I *can* use http://translate.google.com ...and get a "general idea" of what you are saying. But, in addition to the sources Tiamut mentions above; I can add Prof. Walid Khalidi (1992): "All that remain", where on p.153 there is almost the exact same picture (taken in 1991, and uploaded here )

So, we have all the academic heavy-weights like professors Lockman, Khalidi and the rest...all saying this was the cemetery of Balad ash-Shaykh. But you say we should follow the wording of a Hebrew news-paper clipping (which I can only read through a translator) from 1934, instead? TheRealHuldra (talk) 19:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)