File talk:Touchdown (pigeon).jpg

Identification

@MPF: will you please provide a source/reason for this change of identification  fredgandt 02:13, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fred Gandt: - pretty basic bird ID :-) the body structure, plumage colour, bill shape, etc., all readily identify it as a Collared Dove, which is a common bird in this part of England (and one with which I am very familiar). - MPF (talk) 10:37, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@MPF: It's your original research then. Looks little like a collared dove and more like a woodpigeon to me, but neither of us are referenceable experts. Your change from "unidentified columbidae" to "Collared Dove Streptopelia decaocto" should be either backed up by a suitable reference or reverted. Your original research has already leaked through to Wikipedia. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 14:02, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fred Gandt: - it's not original research, it's derived research, which is a different thing altogether and perfectly acceptable. Original research would be saying this is a new species not yet published in field guides, etc. Oh, and look at what it says in every header on every "Category:Unidentified Xxxx" category: This category contains unidentified, unclassified, unknown or mislabelled Columbidae. We would value your expertise to identify these media and find their rightful places in the appropriate category structure (my emphasis in bold). Lots of people use their expertise to identify thousands of photos on Commons, it is a universally accepted, and welcomed feature. FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like a Woodpigeon; wrong colour, wrong structure. - MPF (talk) 14:15, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@MPF: We disagree and I can find no clear cut policy statement regarding the requirement of supporting evidence when identifying subjects of images on commons. It appears I may simply revert your changes or make my own, and we then dance a silly dance until one of us gets bored or blocked. Can we reach an agreement instead? I propose that a less specific categorisation and description is applied. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 15:57, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fred Gandt: - I just find it very surprising that you should feel the need to query this one at all! It is so obviously a Collared Dove; note the slender dark bill, dark eye, and pinkish-brown plumage (cf. here), compared to a Woodpigeon's pink bill with white cere, grey head, and white iris. Why not ask some of the other regular contributors to bird articles for their opinion? Is @Jimfbleak: still active around here? - MPF (talk) 16:31, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@MPF: , @Fred Gandt: looks like collared to me, breast is wrong for wood too, Jimfbleak (talk) 17:00, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@MPF and Jimfbleak: Not that I consider it massively important, I will note that I said more like a woodpigeon not that it looks "like" one. Moving on; I concede that the dark beak is not common for woodpigeons (good observation) but without seeing the back, or even sides, of the neck, underside of the tail, top of the wings or the bird's back, it could easily be a turtle dove, however unlikely. My main reason for dropping my dispute is due to the author's other photos or British wild birds, most of which are titled with the species. Going by the dates and note of probably location as w:Reddish Vale of the photos available, a(nother?) collared dove was also snapped. Considering the scarcity of turtle doves in Britain and the apparent presence of a collared dove in the same place on the same day, I accept that it is probably a collared dove. The photographer has uploaded multiple photos of collared doves and titled the images accordingly; just a shame they chose to be artistic when naming this one. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 17:25, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

@Fred Gandt: - thanks! Yep, it does look like the photographer is prone to the occasional artistic pic titles without naming the species! - MPF (talk) 17:33, 17 February 2021 (UTC)