Template talk:Tincture

Because the development of this template went another way, some talks can be found at Template talk:COAInformation:

• Template talk:Created with Inkscape - Edit request
• FIAV Farben
• Freigabe
• Bayerische Farbpalette und andere Paletten
• Seltene Tinkturen werden nicht kategorisiert
• Category:Undefined color combinations of heraldic shields
• Autocategorisation through template:Tincture

Rename to template:Tincture

I would like to propose to rename the template to template:Tincture and move {{FIAV2}} to template:Tincture/draw0 and {{FIAV3}} to template:Tincture/box. Any objections or ideas for better names? I would also like to allow optional inputs in "a/b/c/d" format in addition to "a|b|c|d". "a/b/c/d" is treated by templates as a single parameter while "a|b|c|d" are 4 parameters. That is what we use in "nationality" field of Template:Creator. --Jarekt (talk) 13:24, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

FIAV exists, found by trial and error, I certainly didn't know it. If you're confident that the experts won't kill you, have fun with the renaming.

Adding code to parse slashes only because some unrelated template does this sounds like a violation of KISS, BROKE, and CREEP. At the moment FIAV123 apparently get away without the String module. –Be..anyone (talk) 01:36, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

I added template:Tincture which is identical to {{FIAV1}} except for "a|b|c|d" -> "a/b/c/d". My issue with {{FIAV1}} is that the name does not have a clear connection to what the template does. As for "|" and "/" difference, the change will make users mess likely to get unexplainable behavior due to issues in different part of the template, for example try to find why wiki code in User:Jarekt/a shows only 1 color instead of 3 (Hint extra character in the first line). Neither version is using LUA. --Jarekt (talk) 03:03, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

I merged template:Tincture and {{FIAV1}} as so the color codes can be separated by either "|" or "/". --Jarekt (talk) 03:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

No screaming mob trying to drown you in the Village Pump, so either this was a good idea or folks were busy with renaming Pussy-horses. –Be..anyone (talk) 20:00, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

8 days too late for the question, does the file namespace actually have subpages? I vaguely recall some French wrestling event (in a QIC or FPC) with a photographer using a camera donated to the local Wikimedia chapter, and the camera name contained some slashes confusing various templates. –Be..anyone (talk) 16:01, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

File namespace officially does not support subpages, however there are plenty of them. But that does not make any difference since the values separated by "/" are color names and codes and they do not have "/". --Jarekt (talk) 16:23, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

If somebody had asked me: I do not find it such a good idea to force FIAV1 into the logic of Tincture. I had always been told to avoid expensive string operations, so I made the efforts and established the template with |-stroke separators. When you think that you need a /-version I agree but it seems not a stringent consequence to overwrite FIAV1 whose name was created after long discussions. Rather I had preferred the possibility to transclude FIAV1 from the new Tincture.
The names (FIAV2, FIAV3) had not been such a good choice, I agree that names with xxxx/yy are better fitting into the subtemplate naming conventions.

Nevertheless it was a very good idea to replace the confusing old COAInformation by a leaner template. sarang♥사랑 08:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Sorry I did not specifically ping you, but I assumed that anybody interested in this template would be watching it. We can keep both {{FIAV1}} and {{Tincture}} - the only price is added confusion to people trying to use it since there is very little difference between them. In the days before LUA, string operations were in general expensive. String length template was implemented as Is it 500 characters long? No then is it 499? All the way to 1. But after LUA string functions are fine. Moreover I am not even using any LUA in this case as parser could always split string into "/" separated substrings. It is not an expensive operation. If you look on files with and without calls to {{Tincture}} and click on page source and find "NewPP limit report" comment section there is field there with "Expensive parser function count" for each page. That count does not change for pages with and without calls to {{Tincture}}. If we keep only one template then we need to decide on name, like "FIAV1" or "Tincture". I do not like FIAV: the acronym does not mean anything to me and when I look it up, it is some organization studying flags, which still do not tell me anything about what does the template do. But although I often follow Be Bold philosophy I also try to do things by consensus. I was trying to start a discussion about the name above. If we can get more opinions I volunteer to change name myself if majority prefers a different one. --Jarekt (talk) 13:23, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Categorie

Please don't add categories to/with this template, this is absolutely uncommon practice. For example even creator templates create no creator cat. Another point The templates uses FIAV colors which are mainly for flags (so the rename was a fault IMHO): Example File:Flag of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.svg Or we must create a secondary template for flags, which I would not prefer. ↔ User: Perhelion 22:15, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

• AFAIK it is a very common practice to categorize with templates. Depending this case, automatic categorization ensures the accordance of colors and category, while manual categorization will enable every incongruity... So I assume it a good idea, contrary to Perhelion.
• It is easy to suppress categorization (since October 2015‎). It is now used with the example above.
• Flags or CoAs? There will be an easy way to solve this problem - automatically, of course - by using the subcategory (flag, coa or others), all within the current template not needing a second one.

Currently nearly no flags use the template; they tend more to the color description with {{Tbc}}. For arms the name "tincture" is fine, whether the colors correspond to FIAV or not. Because of the agreement to restrict arms to FIAV colors wherever possible, the template is also restricted to these (and the Bavarian) colors; more color schemes can easily be added if needed. sarang♥사랑 09:05, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Category names

A long time ago when I had been asked to write FIAV1 I was told that the preferable sequence to define colors is silver-gold and then the other codes in alphabetical order, i.e. a|A|o|b|B|c|C|g|p|s|t|v. As a matter of fact, currently some tincture categories follow this rule, most don't and their sequence sorts "Or" alphabetically between g and p.

I am completely unsure whether the tincture categories are helpful, or not so much. Due to mathematics with 12 colors are 3974 combinations possible; because some combinations as a|A, b|B or c|C are unlikely not all categories are used, and if more than six colors come together as "multi-colored heraldic shields" we need less categories - but IMHO still much more than useful! If the community decides to keep the Color combinations of heraldic shields there are two possibilities: either we let the category names as they are now and let the workaround of the automatic categorization as it is; or we move the categories to the names corresponding to the mentioned rule and don't need any more the workaround template.

There are a lot of files using color combinations without a category defined; for some rare combinations only one file corresponds to a category. Such almost empty categories will not be very helpful. Soon I will collect my arguments and start a CfD. sarang♥사랑 17:28, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Plain tincture categories

@Sarang: Kannst du bitte das Subtemplate /cat2 anpassen? Im Gegensatz zu Kategorien mit zwei oder mehr Tinkturen sind die Kategorien für einfach gefärbte Schilde nach dem Schema Category:Azure (heraldry) aufgebaut, und nicht wie Category:Azure in heraldry. Die Category:Sable in heraldry gibt es zwar, aber die ist für das Tier gleichen Namens (Zobel). Solche einfarbigen Wappenschilde sind zwar eher selten, aber File:5sfg.svg macht z. B. Probleme. De728631 (talk) 19:40, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

@De728631: Bei den Tinkturcategorien gibt es leider ein ziemliches Durcheinander und Gegeneinander, historisch gewachsen. Ich habe mich immer gehütet da was anzufassen... Stattdessen habe ich workarounds (wie /cat1, siehe oberhalb) erstellt um damit zurechtzukommen.

Die Kategorie Azure in heraldry bzw. den redirect habe ich nun per move erzeugt; den move der anderen unicolor-Kategorien kannst du doch gerne selbst machen? Sonst muss ich halt noch ein paar mal ran. -- sarang♥사랑 11:10, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Bitte, bitte, Kategorien NIEMALS mit "move" verschieben! Das ist genau der falsche Weg, weil nämlich der Inhalt nicht mitgenommen wird. Wenn man Kategorien umbennnen will, muss man die neue Seite erzeugen, und dann die entsprechenden Dateien neu kategorisieren. Jetzt liegen haufenweise Dateien und Unterkategorien sozusagen auf einem Redirect und sind nicht richtig eingeordnet. De728631 (talk) 19:15, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Carnation color

Hi everybody

I tagged one of my blazons with the parameters: a/c/o/s (argent, carnation, or, sable). But the corresponding category wasn't exist and the image is tagged with "Undefined color combinations of heraldic shields".

So, I created the suitable category but the template is not able to link my configuration to the new category.

Any idea about the problem? Anyone can help me to improve the categorization process of this template?

Many thanks for your help.

Jpgibert (talk) 09:15, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

 Done This specific combination was missing in the template subpage Template:Tincture/cat1. I added it there and also redirected your new category to a name that matches the default sorting of the tinctures. De728631 (talk) 10:39, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your help De728631. Jpgibert (talk) 11:17, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Or in Heraldry

Hi everybody,

I vectorized a PNG blazon into SVG format and I wanted tag it as Or only because charges are in natural representation.

The tincture template works fine but the autogenerated category Or in heraldry is deprecated and replaced by Or (heraldry). Is it possible to use the suitable new category instead of the old one?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Jpgibert (talk) 20:50, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

{{Tincture/cat2}} uses standard names, which are quite difficult to be changed. I don’t see, however, any evidence that it’s really deprecated, and not just happened to be created using other name. –Tacsipacsi (talk) 13:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Order of tinctures?

(moved from User talk:Sarang#Order of tinctures?)

Hi. You're in the edit history of {{Tincture}}, so I assume you know how the tincture categories are supposed to work. :)

There's a category "Azure and argent in heraldry" and a category "Argent and azure in heraldry". I can't see a reason for both of them to exist. The category "Argent, azure, gules, Or, sable, vert in heraldry" implies that the tinctures are supposed to be in alphabetical order, so "Azure and argent in heraldry" should be turned into a redirect to "Argent and azure in heraldry". Right? Am I missing something? TilmannR (talk) 22:22, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

I opened a CfD. -- User: Perhelion 00:16, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

@Perhelion and TilmannR: Unfortunately it is more complicated. I often mentioned that there is a need to clearify these questions. Years ago I had been told that the order (how the tincts are specified) should always be: argent, Or and then all the others in alphabetical order (a/A/O/b/B/c/..). But the categories follow partly another system, where also argent and Or are alphabetically sorted... So in the case you questioned only "Argent and azure" are within the system, and the definition should also be "a/b", and the contents of Azure and argent in heraldry should be transferred.

There are also other voices telling that we don't need any of these categories.

For the automatic categorization I made a tool which can categorize correct specified tincts into the currently existing categories, whether their names follow the one or the other system. The automatic cat can easily be changed if a consent wishes other category names, or even switched off if a consent wishes no cat — where categorisation occurs without template, more work is needed. At the moment the cat template is invokeded when the template FIAV ≡ Tincture is used, directly or via Igen. -- sarang♥사랑 12:23, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

@Perhelion and Sarang: Regarding "we don't need any of these categories": Argent and azure in heraldry is useful as a super-category for things like Argent a bend azure. I guess instead of removing Azure and argent in heraldry, it could become the super-category of all Azure a ... argent categories. I don't know. Or are people arguing that we shouldn't categorize coats of arms by blazon at all (i.e. they also want to delete Argent a bend azure)? TilmannR (talk) 14:11, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Other fields

It should be possible that (with an additional parameter, e.g. "+") a field name can be generated; likewise it is done by Igen, Taken with, Tbc.
But the module version of Tincture does not support this generation, it influences text around (before and after) the generated color boxes.

It is possible with an intermediate attempt new template Tincture/f as used e.g. in MildmayArms.png;
it is also possible with a construction like |other fields={{InFi|{{ucfirst:{{I18n/COA|tincture}}}}|{{Tincture|a/b}}}} as used e.g. in Albernaz coat.jpg;
but every attempt fails, to use e.g. |other fields={{Tincture|a/o/b/s/t|+=+}}: the parameter +=+ does not disturb, and the field name is generated - but the module version destroys it somehow afterwards.
@Tacsipacsi: would you mind to change the module that it does not make that expansion impossible? -- sarang♥사랑 09:35, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

@Sarang: The module didn’t destroy it—it was simply not there. If a template has <onlyinclude> tags in it, only text within the tags is included (this is why the documentation isn’t included where this template is used). I reverted your change, however, and moved the whole logic into the module, as putting some logic at one place and some other at another one makes the template way too complicated to be easily understood. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 20:48, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

@Tacsipacsi: Köszönöm szépen! Unfortunately I am too stupid to expand the LUA code, I can do it only with the wiki template logic; so I tried it outside of your module - without success. Of course it is much better to have such expansions integrated at the central place. I am glad that it is now working fine and it can be used.

My first intention had been to trigger it with a simple positional parameter "+" (like the "-" is used for 'nocat'); but it is checked and the error of an unknown color code is recogniced. The named parameter "+=+" does not make this problem, so I used that. Best may be to allow "+" as well as "+=+"; because the simple "+" fits a bit better to the logic: «Tincture|a/b/-/v», «Tincture|a/b/g/+» or «Tincture|+|a|g|s» will then be valid transclusions. The template Taken with serves many parameters, therefore I took "+=+" for the field name, as well as only "+"; it would not be bad if Tincture will accept both parametrizing versions? Can't be too difficult -- sarang♥사랑 07:05, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

@Tacsipacsi: Might this do it?

		for i, v in ipairs(args) do
			colors[i] = v
			if v == '+' then
				InFi = 1 
			end
		end

(at both occurrencies) -- sarang♥사랑 09:04, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

@Sarang: I chose to entirely process “-” and “+” parameters in the module. It makes module code a bit more complex, but allows to remove special casing from subtemplates. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 15:06, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Now it seems to be wonderful - everything solved perfectly and no need any more for other templates to handle this remnants. This is coding as I like it. Thank you! -- sarang♥사랑 16:19, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Orange in heraldry

Hi everybody,

I used template:COAInformation on coat of arms having orange field. But the tincture template used through the COAInformation template is not able to manage orange color.

Is it possible to add it to the list?

A category is available here: category:Orange (heraldry).

Thanks a lot for your help. Jpgibert (talk) 21:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Technically this should be possible. The FIAV colour would be #EB7711 and we could use "n" as a colour code in the template. However, past discussions have shown some opposition to including very rare tinctures (aka non-traditional ones) in this template. De728631 (talk) 23:31, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

No problem to add that color; but the Spaniards have it with #F60. -- sarang♥사랑 08:53, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Jpgibert: I gave it a look. Blason de la ville de Tavel (30).svg does not use any known tincture colour, it uses

• #FCEF3C (or)
• #FF8000 (naranja)
• #5AB532 (vert).

Therefore no tincture definition can be used, this image does not follow any tincture standard. Sorry, -- sarang♥사랑 16:05, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

I just made, for an example, Blason Tavel (Gard).svg with three valid tinctures, but without the ugly gradientings. And also without the description "Flag of Canton of Valais (Wallis)" - I believe that no decription is better than a completely wrong one. IMHO such simple images should not be drawn with Inkscape. -- sarang♥사랑 18:05, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Sarang, thanks a lot for your answer. For your information, the french Projet:Blasons defines the Or and Vert (sinople) colors as #FCEF3C and #5AB532. But the "orangé" is #F37905 not #FF8000. But in fact, it is not really a problem if the color is not exactly the same. As you know, in heraldry, the tincture is not a specific color, just an adaptable notion. So, #FF8000, #EB7711 and #F37905 are considered as the same tincture "orangé" in blazon.

When I posted this question, I just want to help designer to classify their work (and mine of course) without necessity to add manually the "Orange (heraldry)" category. It seems to be not possible because the usage of this color is considered as too limited. I understand the argument. Your idea is interesting, I will keep it in mind for future. Jpgibert (talk) 21:13, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Tinkturen Baden-Württemberg

This discussion is copied from the user talk page

Hallo Sarang, ich beschäftige mich gerade mit einigen Wappen aus Baden-Württemberg. Dabei habe ich festgestellt, dass dort keine FIAV Tinkturen benutzt werden, sondern eigene[[ - schau mal hier. Könntest du bei Gelegenheit dafür ein Template nach den FIAV Beispiel erstellen? Vielen Dank im Voraus! Gruß --Jürgen Krause (Diskussion) 17:50, 22. Jan. 2020 (CET)

Vor langer Zeit hatte ich schon mal die bayerischen Tinkturen eingebaut, ich kann natürlich auch alle anderen (du liebe Güte - jedes Land hat eigene!) integrieren, meinetwegen vorerst mal die württembergischen.

Du kannst schon mal die normalen Codes (a,b,B,...) verwenden und den Parameter "by=W" setzen; dann kommen diese Farben, sobald ich sie eingebaut habe (bis dahin eben so ähnliche, aber falsche - kann paar Tage dauern). Natürlich hat die Vorlage keinen Einfluss darauf, welche Farben ein SVG-Wappen wirklich verwendet, aber wir versuchen eben, alles richtig zu beschreiben. -- sarang♥사랑 18:08, 22. Jan. 2020 (CET)

Keine Eile - vielen Dank für deine schnelle Antwort! --Jürgen Krause (Diskussion) 18:24, 22. Jan. 2020 (CET)

Ich erwäge den Parameter "by", der damals für Bayern stand, durch was Neutraleres zu ersetzen (hast du eine Idee?); ausserdem werden mit "by" generell User beschrieben! Unsere Kurzcodes habe ich in die Tabelle eingetragen; wahrscheinlich wird sie gleich jemand der über die Reinheit der de:WP wacht wieder rauslöschen? Dann dopple ich sei eben in die talkpage. Ich kann mal folgende Buchstaben vorplanen:

• B Bayern (es gibt aber 3 Ausprägungen ???)
• H Brandenburg (oder hast du bessere Idee? Eilt ja nicht)
• D Durchschnittswerte
• A Aargau
• N Nidwalden
• W Baden-Württemberg
• S Schweden
• E Espania
• T THW (span. Vexillologie)

wie gesagt, bald wird auch "W" dabeisein (bringt einstweilen noch einen Lua-Fehler). -- sarang♥사랑 18:47, 22. Jan. 2020 (CET)

Muss es unbedingt nur ein Buchstabe sein? Warum nimmst du nicht einfach die Kürzel wie beim ISO-Code BY, BB, BW, AG, NW, etc.? --Jürgen Krause (Diskussion) 19:10, 22. Jan. 2020 (CET)

Geht natürlich auch. Ist vielleicht naheliegender - wenn es nun bald mehr gibt. Und dann muss ich auch noch dieses Muster aufbohren... -- sarang♥사랑 19:18, 22. Jan. 2020 (CET)

Concept

2buchstabige Landeskürzel, mit Parameter "ss" (mag 'state specification' oder 'special shade' bedeuten)

1. BB Brandenburgisches Landeshauptarchiv
2. BW Baden-Württemberg
3. BY Bayerische Kommunalheraldik
4. BV RAL-Farben der Bayerischen Kommunalheraldik/Verkehrsfarben
5. AG Farbkarte Kanton Aargau
6. NW Wappenbuch Kanton Nidwalden
7. CH PDF-Publikation Schweiz
8. WS Allg. vk. Durchschn.-Werte (websicher)
9. SV Schwedisches WikiProjekt
10. HU Ungarisches WikiProjekt (user:Madboy)
11. ES Spanisches WikiProjekt (Taller de Heráldica)
12. 0 Standard FIAV (Spanische Vexillologie)

also ohne "ss" oder "ss=" oder "ss=0" für die letzte Zeile=Standard. Ich denke, wir werden nicht alle brauchen, zB # "originalgetreu umgerechnete Werte aus Bayerischer PDF" ?

In drei Fällen gibt es "oder"-Farben; noch keine Lösung

In vielen Fällen erscheinen Tinkturen undefiniert: da kann eine Fehlermeldung erfolgen, oder eine definierte Standardfarbe ausgegeben werden - zB aus Standard (der letzten Zeile). @Jürgen Krause: So kann es gemacht werden -- sarang♥사랑 08:53, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Zunächst vielen Dank für deine Mühe! Leider verstehe ich als Laie kaum was von dem was hier steht. Was genau muss ich zum Template tincture eintragen für z.B. Baden Württemberg? "tincture=ssBW" ? --Jürgen Krause (talk) 11:42, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Der Eintrag lautet zB {{ Tincture | a/b/c/g | ss = BW }}; doch es wird ja eher mit COAInformation, Image generation und File generation description geschrieben werden, damit sieht das anders aus, und wird dort beschrieben werden. Ich muss erst eine gute Lösung finden. Warte noch ein wenig, und merke dir einstweilen vor welche württembergischen Wappen betroffen sind -- sarang♥사랑 14:11, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Die letzten von mir hochgeladenen Wappen findest du hier. Gruß --Jürgen Krause (talk) 07:40, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

@Jürgen Krause: Mich wundert ein wenig - du bist doch erfahrender Wikimensch, aber du verwendest URLs statt Wikilinks? Vermutlich weil es einfacher ist und schneller geht? Wie auch immer, deine drei Wappen in SVG coats of arms of former municipalities in Baden-Württemberg habe ich nun auf BW-Tingierung umgestellt.

Ich bin soweit fertig mit dieser Umstellung, aber ich muss noch genau kontrollieren ob alle Farben richtig codiert sind. Und ich weiss nicht, was ich mit den "oder" Farben machen soll, es gibt einfache und komplexere Lösungen; am einfachsten ist es, gar nichts zu tun. Und mit den undefinierten Farben ist es auch nicht sehr befriedigend. Auch die Tinkturentabelle braucht wohl etwas Pflege... -- sarang♥사랑 10:29, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Du hast dir mal wieder sehr viel Arbeit gemacht. Ich habe dich nur um eine Palette Baden-Würtemberg gebeten - mit Schweizer Wappen hab ich mich bisher nur am Rande beschäftigt. Warum niemand die Farben von Aargau und Nidwalden benutzt ist mir auch schleierhaft. Da es dort nur wenige Orte gibt, dürfte es kein großes Problem sein diese Wappen entsprechend anzupassen. Gruß --Jürgen Krause (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Wenn es schon mal in der de:WP diese Tabelle gibt, hoffe ich dass die Farbwerte stimmen, und ich nehme sie als Grundlage nicht nur eine Palette dazuzubasteln (und dann vielleicht jedes Jahr wieder eine...); da erledige ich es lieber mit allen Paletten - und so, dass leicht weitere nach demselben Schema zugefügt werden können. Auch von anderen, falls ich nicht ewig lebe.

Angesichts der bestehenden Situation, dass so oft vollkommen undefinierte Tinkturen verwendet werden, ist es vielleicht eine Möglichkeit, eine Palette "Nicht-Standard-Farben" zu verwenden; oder aber einfach jeden Hinweis auf Tinkturen zu unterlassen? Wenn es zB Aargauer Wappen mit spanischen Tinkturen gibt, kann da guten Gewissens mit der ES-Tabelle beschrieben werden - doch nur, wenn auch wirklich alle verwendeten Farben dieser Palette entsprechen.

Ob es Sinn macht, nur wegen "falscher" Tinkturen Grafiken zu überschreiben, bezweifle ich. Wenn ohnehin was geändert werden muss wäre allerdings zu überlegen, ob auch gleich die Farben "richtiggestellt" werden sollen. Es scheint, dass Grafikzeichner nur "die eine" Palette kannten, und ihre Farben für alles verwendet haben, eben auch für Aaargau , Nidwalden etc. So wie Madboy seine eigene Palette für sämtliche Grafiken verwendet.

Fazit: Es gibt jetzt alles, um "richtige" Vektorgrafiken richtig beschreiben zu können. Leider mangelt es sehr an diesen "richtigen" Grafiken! 근하신년 (beste Wünsche zu Chinesischen Neujahr) -- sarang♥사랑 18:39, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Tinctures don't fit

Depending on me, everything is now done. But at one hand there are the tinctures shown in the tables; and there are the SVG-drawings using other colors, than listed in the tables. I could not find even a single drawing with colors like e.g. Tinctures (Aargau) or Tinctures (Nidwalden) in whole the Wikimedia Commons! Neither coats nor flags are drawn with these colors. There are many coats and flags of Brandenburg, I checked them all, not a single one uses the BB colors. In other cases just some colors correspond while others don't. This fact makes the supply of the categories difficult to impossible. 근하신년 -- sarang♥사랑 10:22, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Sweden → SE

Sweden should be abbreviated to SE not SV. See ISO 3166-1. I'm not sure how to fix this. – GeMet [talk] 17:24, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Hi @GeMet: thank you for your concerns. But when I give it a look, the Swedish wikipedia (you may follow the link) has the prefix "sv".

The ISO 639 code tells also "sv" (and that ISO-639-2T, ISO-639-2B, ISO-639-3 is "swe") as the TLD for Sweden = Svenska..

The ISO 639-1 code "se" (and "sme") is the TLD for the exotic language Uralic = Northern Sami = Davvisámegiella, and there exists also a se:Wikipedia.

When the ISO 3166-1 tells that Sweden is 'se', and that 'sv' means El Salvador, it will not be a guide for me and my Wikipedia_conform abbreviations.

Therefore I won't fix anything -- sarang♥사랑 18:24, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia has different languages, for example the Swedish language (sv). But the different tinctures are from countries/regions, for example Sweden (SE). Therefore we shouldn't use language codes as "sv". Am I wrong? – GeMet [talk] 17:36, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

You are right that "sv" is originally a language code – but within wikipedia it is widespread used for all Swedish properties, not only the language. If you are completely unhappy with "SV" I can add "SE" so either of both codes will be useable for Swedish tinctures. -- sarang♥사랑 17:45, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

The problem of crowned CoAs

Escudo de l'Alcora

As an exampe, see the relative simple CoA of Alcora; it consist of the escudo itself,

plataazur	just silver and azur; but as many Spanish escudos, it is crowned, in this case with
with 4 colors	plataorogulessinople

It might be possible just to nominate the tinctures of the escudo itself, as above; or with

plataoroazurgulessinople

all the occuring tinctures.

But both possibilities seem not to be the optimum and do not tell what is really of interest.

It might be a solution to declare instead the tinctures only of the escudo, and mentioning that there is also a crown

plataazurUnknown tincture code: "k"

but without always nominating all their colors.

This can be done for all nations where often typical Rangkronen are used as an attribute, as e.g. for Italy.

The tincture name can be "coronet" with the one-letter short code "k" (c or C are not anymore available).
It is easy to estalish -- sarang♥사랑 09:00, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

There are two ways to solve the same problem with the four different Portuguese mural crowns. Either Attrib can display the used crown, or one of the tincture codes 3, 4, 5 for the three crowns with 3, 4 or 5 towers is used; a fourth code L is for the golden 5-tower crown for the capital Lisbon.

The tincture-code K is used for the frequently used Colar: 

@Sarang: no, it's no problem. Tinctures are used for the shield only. It's "azur" and "plata" only, nothing else. A crown is not a tincture color and has never to be a part of tincture palettes. – Es ist kein Problem. Tinkturen sind nur für den Schild da, in diesem Fall für "azur" und "plata", sonst nichts. Eine Krone ist keine Palettenfarbe und hat somit auch nichts in der Tinkturenpalette verloren. Die Palette muss auf "azur" und "plata" geändert werden, dass nur diese beide Farben angezeigt werden. Sie lautet damit: a/b/ES | Liebe Grüße, – Doc Taxon • Talk • 19:08, 31. Dec 2022 (UTC)

@Doc Taxon: Ich hielt es fur eine Vereinfachung - als 'Pseudo-Tinktur' ist es viel weniger Aufwand als mit Attrib. und bringt die identische Information "da ist auch eine Krone dabei" wesentlich ubersichtlicher. Ist naturlich ein Abusus der Tingierung, andererseits.

Die COAInformation-Automatik ist weitgehend fertiggestellt, mit an die 100 Wappenzeichnern. Es konnen naturlich noch weitere gefunden werden, die mussten dann auch in die Tabelle um die Automatik zu ermoglichen. Beispeilhaft habe ich fur jeden Wappenzeichner ein paar Wappen bearbeitet, aber die vielen tausend Wappen vonn denen die meisten noch zu konvertieren sind soll jemand machen der mehr davon versteht und ggf. korrigieren kann. Ohne Bsonderheiten brauchen Konvertierung und Automatik ca. 1 Minute je Wappen, bereits konvertierte gehen schneller. 05:45, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Nicht alle Wappenkronen sind noch einmal einzeln als Elemente gespeichert, da ist dann eine Angabe als Attribut genauso wenig möglich wie eine Krone als Pseudo-Tinktur-Zeichen. Die Tingierung ist ein Bestandteil heraldischer Regeln, da kann man nicht einfach Pseudos hinzufügen. Die Bezeichnung des Parameters lautet "Tingierung". Da geht eine Krone nicht mal als Pseudo-Tinktur-irgendwas. Das mit den Attributen finde ich schon okay so, wie es bisher war. Ich weiß nicht, warum man das ändern muss. Und es gibt noch deutlich mehr Attribute als nur die Krone, was wäre mit denen? Die meisten Deiner Änderungen finde ich gut, aber das mit der Krone ist genauso unnötig wie überflüssig. – Doc Taxon • Talk • 13:58, 1. Jan 2023 (UTC)

In Ordnung, ich verfolge das nicht weiter -- sarang♥사랑 14:14, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Brunâtre

It seems that brunâtre exists in different national tinctures, with different color codes. Do we need it?
When yes, the one-letter short code "T" (another tawny) would be fine -- sarang♥사랑 08:46, 12 March 2023 (UTC)