User talk:Slaunger/Archives/2007/10

Ikke fordi Grønland en gang var norsk...

...men dette er rett og slett et usedvanlig bra bilde! Finn Rindahl 20:22, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Tak for det! Jeg er også stolt af det, og det tog mange timer i det digitale mørkekammer at sy sammen. Hvis ikke Norge havde erklæret sin selvstændighed i 1814 havde Grønland sikkert ikke længere været en del af det danske rigsfællesskab, og jeg ville sandsynligvis ikke have set det jeg så på billedet, men så kan det være du havde taget det i stedet! -- Slaunger 20:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Quality Image

I believe this belongs to you, copied from my talk page:

Your image has been reviewed and promoted Congratulations! Black ice growler upernavik 2007-07-07a.jpg, which was produced by you, was reviewed and has now been promoted to Quality Image status. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Quality images candidates. We also invite you to take part in the categorization of recently promoted quality images. Comments {{{3}}}

Calibas 23:12, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

A new new new version is available (Kaizen!)

Dear Slaunger, I am learning-by-doing panoramas. ;-) So I uploaded a new improved version of my Sitges Panorama your reviewed here Commons:Quality_images_candidates/candidate_list#October_10.2C_2007 . It would be very kind if you could drop an eye on it again. Thanks -- Alberto Fernandez Fernandez 09:25, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your time. I think I had a problem with the projection I was using. Change it and added control points as suggested. I didn't use a tripod to take the pictures. Some motion blur could be present. Actually, I am not in favor of downsampling panoramas (this is 9500px+ width) but I can do it if you find the existing blur too annoying. Let me know.

New version is uploaded. As suggested: noise reduction of the sky + 10% downsampling. Final result is indeed better :-). Thanks for sharing your know-how. Appreciated -- Alberto Fernandez Fernandez 14:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Help with with aerial shots of Greenland

Hi Slaunger,
as you have been in Greenland by yourself, you might be able to help a little bit with a better or more precise description of what is shown in several aerial photographs I shot last year on a flight from Europe to North America, see: Image:Greenland 1699b.jpg, Image:Greenland 1692a1.jpg, Image:Greenland 1697b.jpg, Image:Greenland 1691b.jpg, Image:Greenland 1693b.jpg, Image:Greenland 1690b.jpg. Thank you. -- Túrelio 10:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Commons photographers

Thanks for the proposals and the notification. Lycaon 20:48, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Although I don't share completely your opinion, I admire your perseverance, neutrality and wisdom in the Ph-x debate. Great to see people that have a "commons" spirit. --Foroa 07:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

The great ph-x debate :-)

Thanks for your comments.

• I think all your contributions to the discussion have been great. The proposals have taken on a life of their own and the original proposals have been confounded and subverted :-). For instance your proposal-1 : many voters that support proposal-1 have redefined it with qualifications on their support. It seems to me that proposal-1 (Simple rules, one new level, little emphasis on volume) has been redefined (subverted?) to being precisely proposal-2 (More strict with emphasis on volume and two new levels) but with one less level.

  Thank you. Actually stating that proposal 1 has become proposal 2 is an overstatement IMO. It is more like in between. I think as such this is OK although not as simple and straightforward as the original proposal. And it also means more current users are demoted, which is regrettable.

• I have taken time out from the discussion as few people (apart from you :-) seems to be addressing the points brought up by others, but just assessing whether they are in agreement or opposition - just looking at it as a vote and a numbers game rather than seeking a consensus. I'm taking a little time to look at my own arguments and bounce them off others who are not involved - am I wrong, am I not clear, am I just not engaging others properly?

  I agree and I appreciate you constructive approach to the discussion.

• I think all parties can live with a new system of templates or awards being created with arbitary break points for each level (exact quantum of QI & FP yet to be finalised).
• From my point of view the main sticking point is whether part of an existing system of user-boxes (ph-x being one of many, eg see Category:Graphics abilities) should be taken over for this purpose. This is where I'm not sure whether those pro the take over don't see this new quanitative system as being a different beast from self assessed qualitative user-boxes, or whether they don't see any value in the current system and think it should be done away with anyway. Perhaps I am talking at cross purposes, the response to my points seems to be that these things can not be self assessed, nothing of value exists that can't be measured with a ruler - therefore we will define the ruler. ... This argument would seem to negate the value of all userboxes that contain rating levels (eg babel boxes, and the other graphics ability boxes and no doubt others). --Tony Wills 11:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

  I see your point. Only here we just have slightly different opinions. I my opinion the impact by "taking over" the system is not that large. I do not consider it as a take over, but as a clarification. And for the babel system and others, they have to be qualitative as we have no objective measures readily available on Commons, so I do not think that is an anomaly of the proposed system. -- Slaunger 12:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I am glad you dropped by on my talk page. I find it interesting to have these discussions with you. -- Slaunger 12:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think this has been widely publicised enough yet, which is part (but not all) of my reason for opposing it. I've taken it to the Village Pump (with a clearly labeled heading: Commons:Village_pump#A_proposal_at_Category_talk:Commons_photographers_that_needs_wider_input,that includes a link to the page itself, so it should be easy to find in future) to foster further discussion. Tony has the other part of my issue down pat, above. (We'd have to toss every rating box everywhere if this argument were taken to the logical conclusion... also I think I'm at level PH2 because many of my pictures are used on other wikis in some form or another, not because I pass some metric of how many QI and FP I have) ... Thanks for your work on this proposal and your stunning pictures in any case. ++Lar: t/c 12:03, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

(refactored here per my policy) Hi Lar, Thank you for dropping by my user page and for you kind remark. I am perfectly fine with your vote, as I have restated over and over in this discussion is preferred to get the widest possible opions on this. I too have made a post on this on the village pump and reposted notifications twice to get some more attention from a wider audience, as well as dropping notes on 20-30 user pages for current active PH-n users (whereafter I ran out of time). But I think it is great you make a new post. Cheers -- Slaunger 12:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Well I would be happy to run an AWB run to "spam" everyone who has one of these boxes at whatever level if you want, just let me know. Some people don't take kindly to spamming like that though. I think just raising it at VP again would at least help. One other comment I have is that I don't think it should be a "vote", as with anything here, it needs to be a consensus that is developed. Right now I don't think there is consensus either way. Thanks for your efforts to make Commons better. ++Lar: t/c 13:18, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Fine with just the VP. Actually, I think it was Tony who thought of "spamming" all the PH users with a notice. But I think it is fine if we don't. Many are not active anyway. I prefer consensus also, if possible. If a change is made to the system in the end I think an informative notice on the ph user pages are in order. -- Slaunger 13:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Hello :)

Hi Slaunger,

Just wanted to say hi :) We haven't crossed paths yet, but it looks like you have been uploading some awesome work and are having some thoughtful discussions, so, that's cool :)

BTW this is very full on... I can't believe they just leave them on the street. You should put it in some (relevant) Wikipedia articles!

cheers, pfctdayelise (说什么?) 11:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate your comments, I just replied to your questions on Tonys page, a little confusing I know. I have also notice that you are doing very hard and diligent work on administration, POTY2007, helping users at the village pump and so on. It is great to have users like you around that do these things for free.

Concerning the dog, I am beginning to regret I ever uploaded it, as it brings out emotions of disturbance concerning the local population which I never intended and which I think are not fair and balanced. My own immediate reaction was very much like yours, but I have given it a lot of thought since and now I am not disturbed about it anymore. Let me tell you why: Every day when I drive to work, I pass through the country-side. There are quite a lot of pig-farms, and quite often there are dead pigs lying at the entrace to the farms ready to be picked up by a disposal service, which takes care of the disposal of the dead animal. The dead pigs are clearly visible from the road side. It is not pretty but they are there. Nobody here raises an eye-brow about it. Why? Because with the cultural values prevailing at my location this is considered normal. The pigs are produced for human comsumption, and sometimes some die and needs to be disposed of from the farm.

In Upernavik, the sled dogs are working animals used for transportation. They are not pet dogs, but wild animals closely related with wolves, which you should not approach unless you are the owner. The stock of dogs needs to be regulated somehow, and this is done by shooting, which is effective for killing an animal without pain and it is drawn to the road side for disposal. Nobody in that society raises an eye-brow about this. This is because other cultural values prevail there due to the different boundary conditions of life. There if your sled dog does not perform while using it for transportation or hunting, you may die because you fail to get back. Most users who have seen that photo find it disturbing and shocking. Personally, I think this reaction is just due to the overlay of cultral values of the user who fails to have empathy with the local culture. Probably unwillingly due to lack of knowledge. -- Slaunger 12:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I saw a comment you made like this on the FPC and I agree. I would find it disturbing even if it was a pig or sheep or whatever, but that is probably because (a) the staging of the photo is very stark -- a bullet to the head; and (b) I'm vegetarian so I have already thought a little bit about how humans arbitrarily choose some animals to treat with respect and others to treat as food/a tool for human use. But anyway that point is precisely why I think this image is valuable, to help people realise the cultural constructs that they may never have realised they have. And for westerners treating dogs as "man's best friend", a companion, almost human, rather than a tool for our use, is a very strong one. So yes it is disturbing but we need to be disturbed. --pfctdayelise (说什么?) 13:23, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

I am glad you seem to have given this some good thoughts too. I greatly respect that you have made a choice about the type of food you eat. A choice which is possible for you in the environment you live in. Many locals do not have the choise to become vegetarian, even if they wanted. Fresh vegetables and fruit is rarely available in the only shop in town and typically very expensive. Like 5$ for a cucumber and 20$ for 5 kg of new potatoes. So unless you really love frozen vegetables I would say it is a challenge to live as a vegetarian there. It is my impression that a significant fraction of food intake by a typical family living there is based on seal (like this), fish, whale, halibut, catfish, and cod.