10gok10

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 07:23, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

That map

Hey again how are you sorry for bother you again Pretty sure you know what i am to talking about

That book is about 20 years ago And today there are lots of new things like new founded coins

And i have really great new source that tell you the bactria was under sasanian before khsorow ii

I want to send it

And Although i remove a talk about gorgan wall that i send here some hours ago The gokturks are too fat into sasanian borders And at least the truly borders between these 2 empires should like this maps https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/2/2a/20240201141203%21Map_of_the_First_Turkic_Kaghanate.png

File:Map of the Western Turkic Khaganate.png Twg7s7h (talk) 00:38, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Even that text and book is based on very old sources

That text: Harmatta, 1962, p. 133, note 5 Twg7s7h (talk) 07:46, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

According to new sources like ReOrienting the Sasanians East Iran in Late Antiquity (by Khodadad Rezakhani and the Edinburgh University Press): The arrangement between the ‘Chinese’ (Western Turks) and the Hephthalites, including the removal of a Hepthalite king and the appointment of a new king, however, does not go well with the Sasanian king Khosrow I. The king, considering the actions of the Turks to be a threat to his sovereignty in the region, mounts a campaign against the Turks and marches towards the border in Gorgan. There, he is met by an envoy of the Turks bearing presents, and in a show of power and military might, convinces the Turks to conclude an alliance. The alliance includes the daughter of the Khaghan marrying Khosrow, thus becoming the mother of the future Ohrmizd IV (579–91), which seems historically inaccurate. But more importantly, it requires Faghanish, the new king of the Hephthalites, to go to the Sasanian court in Ctesiphon and receive the approval of Khosrow I for his rule over the Hephthalites.

This is true

Read about Faghanish in wikipedia: Meanwhile, the Turkic Yabgu Istemi reached an agreement with the Hephthalite nobility, and appointed Faghanish as the new Hephthalite king. This was much to the dislike of the Sasanian shah Khosrow I Anushirvan (r. 531–579), who considered the Turkic collaboration with the Hephthalites to pose a danger for his rule in the east, and thus marched towards the Sasanian-Turkic border in Gurgan. When he reached the place, he was met by a Turkic delegate of Istemi that presented him gifts. There Khosrow asserted his authority and military potency, and persuaded the Turks to make an alliance with him. The alliance contained a treaty that made it obligatory for Faghanish to be sent to the Sasanian court in Ctesiphon and gain the approval of Khosrow for his status as Hephthalite king. Faghanish and his kingdom of Chaghaniyan thus became a vassal of the Sasanian Empire, which set the Oxus as the eastern frontier the Sasanians and Turks.Faghanish's fate after that is unknown, he may have been the ancestor of the principality of Chaghaniyanthat ruled from the early 7th century to the late 8th century.

File:Chaghaniyan. Uncertain Chaghan Khudah. 7th century CE.jpg (Coin of an uncertain Chaghan Khudah, in Sasanian style. Chaghaniyan, 7th century CE)

Also in Principality of Chaghaniyan wikipedia: During the late 7th-century CE, Chaghaniyan became independent from Hephthalite rule, and came under the control of presumably Iranian local rulers known as the “Chaghan Khudah”.

Also another thing in Chaghaniyan wikipedia: following their defeat against the Sasanian Empire and the First Turkic Khaganate in 563-567 CE. They resettled in Chaganian and other territories of Tokharistan, under their new king Faganish, who established a dynasty. Soon, the new Hephthalite territories north of the Oxus, to which Chaganian belonged, fell under Western Turk suzerainty, while the territories south of the Oxus were nominally controlled by the Sasanian Empire. The territories under the Turks rebelled in 581 CE.

Their coinage in Chaganian was an imitation of the Sasanian coins of Khusrau I, with sometimes the addition of the name of local rulers. Twg7s7h (talk) 09:14, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

You: Even that text and book is based on very old sources

That text: Harmatta, 1962, p. 133, note 5.

According to new sources like ReOrienting the Sasanians East Iran in Late Antiquity (by Khodadad Rezakhani and the Edinburgh University Press)

Me : Even Khodadad Rezakhani use Harmatta as source.:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/reorienting-the-sasanians/D9062156B610F03416375DF84C81390B/listing?q=Harmatta&searchWithinIds=D9062156B610F03416375DF84C81390B&fts=yes&searchWithinIds=D9062156B610F03416375DF84C81390B&aggs%5BproductTypes%5D%5Bfilters%5D=BOOK_PART 10gok10 (talk) 07:09, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello. It is an honor for me to talk with you.

I will answer all your questions, just be patient and then we will talk about it 10gok10 (talk) 13:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

you:Even that text and book is based on very old sources

That text: Harmatta, 1962, p. 133, note 5

Me:

first we both use same source just different pages (History of civilizations of Central Asia:III. The crossroads of civilizations: A.D. 250 to 750.)

socond :You can read a book written in 1940 that says Hitler was born in 1889 read a book written in 2010 that says Hitler was born in 1889.both of them are correct.

third :History of civilizations of Central Asia is very reliable book published by unesco in 6 volume from 700 B.C to present time.it's the best for central asian history.

https://www.unesco.org/archives/multimedia/document-1595 10gok10 (talk) 13:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

you :Read about Faghanish in wikipedia: Meanwhile, the Turkic Yabgu Istemi reached an agreement with the Hephthalite nobility, and appointed Faghanish as the new Hephthalite king. This was much to the dislike of the Sasanian shah Khosrow I Anushirvan (r. 531–579), who considered the Turkic collaboration with the Hephthalites to pose a danger for his rule in the east, and thus marched towards the Sasanian-Turkic border in Gurgan. When he reached the place, he was met by a Turkic delegate of Istemi that presented him gifts. There Khosrow asserted his authority and military potency, and persuaded the Turks to make an alliance with him. The alliance contained a treaty that made it obligatory for Faghanish to be sent to the Sasanian court in Ctesiphon and gain the approval of Khosrow for his status as Hephthalite king. Faghanish and his kingdom of Chaghaniyan thus became a vassal of the Sasanian Empire, which set the Oxus as the eastern frontier the Sasanians and Turks.Faghanish's fate after that is unknown, he may have been the ancestor of the principality of Chaghaniyanthat ruled from the early 7th century to the late 8th century.

Me: source : page 176-177

Litvinsky, B. A.; Dani, Ahmad Hasan (1996). History of Civilizations of Central Asia: The crossroads of civilizations, A.D. 250 to 750. UNESCO. ISBN 9789231032110 10gok10 (talk) 13:42, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

'You: Also another thing in Chaghaniyan wikipedia: following their defeat against the Sasanian Empire and the First Turkic Khaganate in 563-567 CE. They resettled in Chaganian and other territories of Tokharistan, under their new king Faganish, who established a dynasty. Soon, the new Hephthalite territories north of the Oxus, to which Chaganian belonged, fell under Western Turk suzerainty, while the territories south of the Oxus were nominally controlled by the Sasanian Empire. The territories under the Turks rebelled in 581 CE( Remember this 581 CE).

Their coinage in Chaganian was an imitation of the Sasanian coins of Khusrau I, with sometimes the addition of the name of local rulers.

'Me: source page 177. source number 1 in Chaghaniyan wikipedia. The territories under the Turks rebelled in 581 CE( Remember this 581 CE)

Dani, Ahmad Hasan; Litvinsky, B. A. (January 1996). History of Civilizations of Central Asia: The crossroads of civilizations, A.D. 250 to 750. UNESCO. p. 177. ISBN 978-92-3-103211-0. 10gok10 (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I am tired today, so I am writing briefly (and copy paste). My source : page 368 Dani, Ahmad Hasan; Litvinsky, B. A. (January 1996). History of Civilizations of Central Asia: The crossroads of civilizations, A.D. 250 to 750. UNESCO. p. 368. ISBN 978-92-3-103211-0. : In 569–570 they (Goktürks) launched

a great military expedition against Sasanian Iran in which they conquered the territory ofthe former Hephthalite kingdom belonging to Iran in the form of vassal kingdoms andprincipalities. (The Sasanians were powerless to resist because they were also engaged inwar against Byzantium.) It seems the Turks reached the Kabul–Gandhara area in 570 10gok10 (talk) 13:58, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

ater historical events show that the successor principalities of the Hephthalite king-dom, formerly annexed to Iran, accepted Türk supremacy and became vassals of the West-ern Türkkaghan ( Istämi was the yabgu (vassal) of his brother Bumin Qaghan.He was posthumously referred to as khagan in Turkic sources.Ishtemi Sir Yabghu Khagan). Thus, the southern section of the Silk Route was opened to the Türks andthe Sogdian silk merchants, who were able to transport their merchandise to the harbourson the western shores of India. The taking of the city of Bosporus by the Türk army in the Crimea (not show in the current map there are many other source that talk about conquest of Crimea by Goktürks) in these years was also designed to ensure control of the steppe Silk Route up tothe Black Sea 10gok10 (talk) 14:06, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

However, the Sasanians did not renounce their claim to eastern Iran nor did the Hep-hthalites abandon their aspirations for independence. According to thePei-shih(Chap-ter XLIV, p. 4), both the Sasanians and the Hephthalites revolted against Tardu (Ta-t’ou)kaghan in 581 (i said remember this 581 CE) or 582.4Some 10gok10 (talk) 14:10, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

"The king (Khosrow I), considering the actions of the Turks to be a threat to his sovereignty in the region, mounts a campaign against the Turks and marches towards the border in Gorgan (Read this section very carefully "towards the border in Gorgan") There (border in Gorgan"), he is met by an envoy of the Turks." And again "and thus marched towards the Sasanian-Turkic border in Gurgan When he reached the place, he was met by a Turkic delegate of Istemi."

10gok10 (talk) 14:18, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

another thing. The current map is based on "User:Greenvert" you several time change it to another map 10gok10 (talk) 14:41, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Me too thx

very good, we can interact

First, I'm not saying that this source is useless because it's old, I meant that at that time we didn't have the information we have now, and if we're going to use something from this source, other sources should also confirm it, even though this text was based on a quote around 30 years older than the book

Secend, the hitler example you say is simple because maybe in future they found a new sound of hitler that gives us a new info about some other things not just simple birth date

And yet its not equal

Third, maybe that author have a some historical things and gave this idea (you know its a idea just because of a unknown poem)

Fourth, after that you copy the source again and i read it before

If you have another sources for this happning or period you should give it a specially new one

However i send some new one and this idea was not supported by them although you can see the 581 explantion in the unesco book, and now the new source I sent Twg7s7h (talk) 16:22, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

you dont get my point(about hitler).

If "A" say nothing about "B" doesn't make there is NO "B"

https://www.amazon.com/History-Civilizations-Central-Asia-Civilization/dp/9231032119

publication date : march 9.2006

If there is something wrong they delete it. Most of what you said today was based on this source, i address you the number of source and the page of it.10gok10 (talk) 16:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

If the text was wrong they do not put it in important book like this 10gok10 (talk) 16:47, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Come , another source:

In AD 569-570 Turkic army launched a military expedition against Sasanian

Iran and conquered the territory of the former Hephthalite kingdom belonging to

Iran. In AD 570 the Turks were certainly operating in the Kabul-Gandhara area.

Source:

KURBANOV, AYDOGDY (2010)

"THE HEPHTHALITES: ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND HISTORICAL ANALYSIS" page 190

Look at the year of publication: 2010 10gok10 (talk) 17:30, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

i think we are done 10gok10 (talk) 17:43, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Wow really good thx again

Yea we done

But accept this that turks border in north eastren sasanian is wrong it should be some space at least (cause of gorgan wall)

Like this two map

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/2/2a/20240201141203%21Map_of_the_First_Turkic_Kaghanate.png

File:Map of the Western Turkic Khaganate.png

But i know it's by owner and not us

Again good luck man!

But before going can you tell me where are you from? Whould be happy to know if it was near Twg7s7h (talk) 21:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I answered this question with your own source and text yesterday. But ok, I will answer one more time.

1 (by Khodadad Rezakhani and the Edinburgh University Press): "The king, considering the actions of the Turks to be a threat to his sovereignty in the region, mounts a campaign against the Turks and marches towards the border in Gorgan (Read this section very carefully "towards the border in Gorgan). There (border in Gorgan), he is met by an envoy of the Turks".

2 : and thus (Khosrow I Anushirvan) marched towards the Sasanian-Turkic border in Gurgan. When he reached the place (place = border = in Gurgan), he was met by a Turkic delegate of Istemi.

The result is : Sasanian-Turkic border = Gurgan (An ancient city in the southwest of present-day Gonbad-e Kavus in Golestan province of iran, The great wall of Gorgan [ also khown as دیوار بزرگ گرگان یا دیوار سرخ or مار سرخ] is there [I can give you the locations of the wall and its coordinates] Inside the Current borders of Iran.)

(Khosrow I Anushirvan) Reach Sasanian-Turkic border in Gurgan and saw envoy of the Turks" (or Turkic delegate of Istemi) there ( in border). 10gok10 (talk) 18:05, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

About those two maps.They are completely wrong.In the east, Manchuria, the territory of the Khitans and Shiwei and the Great Wall of China is not shown (per source :from Manchuria and the Great Wall of China to the Black Sea.the Shiwei submitted to the Türks, so did the Khitan). In the west, the Caucasus, Crimea and Tokharistan (Bactria), it is not shown ( per source :Turkish expansion to the west and around the Caspian Sea saw them dominate the western steppes and its people and extend this frontier down to the Caucasus.In AD 569-570 Turkic army launched a military expedition against Sasanian

Iran and conquered the territory of the former Hephthalite kingdom belonging to

Iran. In AD 570 the Turks were certainly operating in the Kabul-Gandhara area.The taking of the city of Bosporus by the Türk army in the

Crimea in these years was also designed to ensure control of the steppe Silk Route up tothe Black Sea). I wrote the text of the sources as a summary.10gok10 (talk) 18:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

I will add at least twelve more reliable sources to the article (for map) 10gok10 (talk) 18:27, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Even in this map Manchuria, the territory of the Khitans and Shiwei in east and Tokharistan, Kabul-Gandhara area and Crimea is not shown 10gok10 (talk) 18:34, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Very great your perfect in this case that i didn't expect

This is ended i'm i am convinced

You can remove all again Twg7s7h (talk) 08:26, 12 June 2024 (UTC)