Kiwi8 fruit6

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 02:28, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Re Auckland post-CRL map, Pukekohe expresses

Hi,

I noticed in your map you show the Southern Express services (thin pink line) as stopping at Otahuhu, Sylvia Park and Panmure. That doesn't match the source PDF (page 37), which shows them running express Britomart to Puhinui then Papakura and all to Pukekohe. Is this something you're able to modify? Anothersignalman (talk) 02:48, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi there

For the Southern Express operating pattern I referenced a different source - one of Auckland Council's streamed meetings concerning the City Rail Link (this video & timecode here). The presentation shows a map of the immediate post CRL operating pattern in more detail - and despite the watermark it appears to show the Southern Express line (dark red on this diagram) stopping at Panmure, Sylvia Park, and Otahuhu in addition to all stations south of Papakura. GreaterAuckland uploaded a higher quality image of that slide in this article. It also indicates a likely half-hourly service frequency for this line.

An additional document from the appendices of Auckland Light Rail (page 64) shows the same stopping pattern for the Southern Express service, and also again indicates half-hourly (2 trains per hour) service frequency.

I will concede that things may have been changed since those diagrams were made publicly available in 2022 - and indeed, the ALR appendices, the Auckland Council presentation, and the draft RPTP all differ in the exact operating pattern of the crosstown Western & Onehunga Line (does it terminate at Henderson, at Maungawhau/Mt Eden, or at Newmarket?). And I am wary that none of the diagrams/maps show clearly how the Southern Express will terminate and turn around - will it terminate at Britomart/Waitemata station? Or does it somehow merge into the all-stops Southern Line?

There is also the fact that a newer official map (found on this page) of the post-CRL Auckland rail network omits the Southern Express line entirely. There isn't much clarity on what service pattern will actually eventuate, so I suppose based on the varied information given I have put together the most optimistic possible service pattern in the map I made. Kiwi8 fruit6 (talk) 08:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Huh, I hadn't seen the video before. Looking at the screenshot in the article, I don't think you can conclusively say the expresses will stop at Otahuhu; it also looks like they were considering having some Manukau trips turn towards Grafton, under the "A" in "DRAFT", which the blog post appears to have missed? The video is dated 1 December and the post 6 December 2022, while the Regional Public Transport Plan 2023-2031 is dated June 2023, so its map is significantly more recent and therefore more likely to be accurate. The end of the document, page 109, also has a service outline, which explicitly states the Onehunga line will initially run to Maungawhau, and later be extended to Henderson.

As an aside, I suspect the map in the Auckland Light Rail appendix document can be discarded as obsolete, unless the airport line proposal is revitalised? Anothersignalman (talk) 06:18, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I suppose it does make the most sense to omit Panmure, Sylvia Park, and Otahuhu stations from the Southern Express line unless/until we get a firmer announcement on the rail operating patterns closer to the CRL opening in 2025/2026. IMO I think the express services calling at one or two of those stations (maybe not all 3) would make sense; Panmure and Otahuhu are busy interchange stations for East and South Auckland bus services. But I'm not calling the shots.

Can have a shot at revising my map within the next few days with the following changes:

• Merging the pink Southern Express line into the red Southern Line, as in the RPTP draft map (with a colour gradient).
• Provisionally removing Panmure, Sylvia Park, and Otahuhu stops from the pink Southern Express line.
• Adjusting the layout of the Red Line as it loops around the City Rail Link and Parnell, to make it a bit tidier.
• Making the Onehunga Line dashed beyond Maungawhau to indicate that Maungawhau-Henderson is a future extension of the service.

Kiwi8 fruit6 (talk) 08:08, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

I can see the benefit of having the express trains serving Panmure and Otahuhu, though I'd worry a bit about the expresses getting overloaded in the PM peak with people from the city to those places rather than reserving capacity for people commuting further. Given that the Express is explicitly stated as using both the Southern and Eastern, keeping the line via Panmure (without stops) is probably a better reflection of the final result than removing it completely, especially considering that Onehunga needs paths Penrose to Newmarket. I like the idea of a dashed blue line, provided it has a legend explaining what it indicates. That legend should also cover the red circle with white cross, and maybe consider other symbols for the airport, universities etc?

Maybe all that's needed for the red line is a thin white margin between the two branches, so it doesn't look like a single thick line between Newmarket and Otahuhu?

Agree a gradient between pink and red at Quay Park makes sense until they publish something explaining what happens to the Expresses in the city. I don't think Aotea will have terminating facilities.

Would it be worth adding freight paths, Te Huia and/or the Northern Explorer services to the map? Anothersignalman (talk) 08:27, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice! Will make the changes for the white margin for the red line Newmarket-Otahuhu tomorrow.

Believe you're correct in that Britomart/Waitemata is the only underground station that will have turnback/terminating tracks. They are planning to reduce the number of tracks from 5 to 4 in order to widen the platforms, but the two central tracks would still be terminating and they would make sense for express services to terminate.

Freight paths - I wouldn't add those as they don't *really* concern commuters and passengers (well, aside from potential delays). Northern Explorer hasn't appeared in historic official rail maps for Auckland, but there might be a case for Te Huia (provided of course that it is still operating in 2025/2026) Kiwi8 fruit6 (talk) 10:32, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

The new map looks much better. Would it be worth having Otahuhu, Middlemore and Papatoetoe as black outlines in the format ()=(), rather than separate red and green circles? Consider how South Yarra station is shown on the Melbourne map, cell G6 here - [1].

Re other services, freight and passenger; is this map intended to show services operated by AT, or services operating in/through Auckland? If the latter, those extra paths should be shown. The caption on the CRL page indicates the latter. Anothersignalman (talk) 07:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)