Abutalub

Welcome to Wikimedia Commons, Abutalub!

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-- Wikimedia Commons Welcome (talk) 16:50, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Image without license

File:Suhedaname.png

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There seems to be a problem regarding the description and/or licensing of this particular file. It has been found that you've added in the image's description only a Template that's not a license and although it provides useful information about the image, it's not a valid license. Could you please resolve this problem, adding the license in the image linked above? You can edit the description page and change the text. Uploading a new version of the file does not change the description of the file. This page may give you more hints on which license to choose. Thank you.

This message was added automatically by MifterBot ^{(Talk • Contribs • Owner)}, if you need some help about it please read the text above again and follow the links in it, if you still need help ask at the → Commons:Help desk in any language you like to use. --MifterBot ^{(Talk • Contribs • Owner)} 02:34, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Done.--Abutalub (talk) 09:01, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Битлиси

На каком языке эти рукописи, есть АИ что на азербайджанском, или вы его сами открыли? --Taron Saharyan (talk) 19:40, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

See source section.--Abutalub (talk) 19:41, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Первый не понятно что, второй пишет об азербайджанизмах в турецком.--Taron Saharyan (talk) 19:45, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

What about this one?

Eseri olan SELIM-NAME nin bir adı da FVTVHATV'S-SELIMIYYEdir. Çokuzun bir şekilde mesnevi terzinde Azeri lehçesiyle yazılmıştır. Şehsüvar.oğlu Ali Bey'in isteği üzerine Ahmedi'nin ıskender-namesi şeklinde yazılmıştır. Fakat daha sonra'HaliI-oğlu Koçi Bey, eserde birçok yalnışlar olduğunu söylemişve bunun üzerine yazar, eseritekrar, Koçi Bey'in verdiği bilgiler üzerine, yazmıştır. Eser bir geniş girişten sonra, Selim'in Trabzon da valiliği ile başlar ve KanUni'nin tahta çıkması ile son bulur--Abutalub (talk) 19:48, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Image without license

File:Yusifin xilas edilməsi. Həqiqədüs süəda.png

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There seems to be a problem regarding the description and/or licensing of this particular file. It has been found that you've added in the image's description only a Template that's not a license and although it provides useful information about the image, it's not a valid license. Could you please resolve this problem, adding the license in the image linked above? You can edit the description page and change the text. Uploading a new version of the file does not change the description of the file. This page may give you more hints on which license to choose. Thank you.

This message was added automatically by MifterBot ^{(Talk • Contribs • Owner)}, if you need some help about it please read the text above again and follow the links in it, if you still need help ask at the → Commons:Help desk in any language you like to use. --MifterBot ^{(Talk • Contribs • Owner)} 17:03, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Categorization

Hi, Abutalub. This edit is wrong. Probably you do not know very well our "box in box" type categorization system. I will revert your edit, please do not change it again. Let me tell you openly that if you do so I may report you for "edit war" and this may end in a block. Understood? Best regards. --E4024 (talk) 20:03, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Turkman style

If you continue this disruption, I will not hesitate to report you at Commons too. Enough is enough. You are already blocked in the English Wikipedia, and I had recently had to spend hours to clean up a WP:POVFORK mess that you had originally created in the Azeri Wikipedia. You won't be allowed to do the same here too. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:33, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

The way you are talking is rude. "Enough is enough"? The reference I gave clearly states that the art is Turkmen. There is no need for wordplay. You can read the reference I added instead of deleting. That book clearly has many references about many Turkmen helmets that are in just one museum. Cheers.--Abutalub (talk) 20:51, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

I admit that I initially misread "Turkmen art" as "Turkmen style". Still, it looks like a WP:POVFORK of the latter, you conveniently creating after I called you out about Turkmen style. Please show me some WP:RS that demonstrates this "Turkmen art" is a concept amongst art historians. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

I used many English language articles (in Azeri wiki) which are about Türkmen architecture and helmets. The source you deleted has exact wording "Türkmen style" for helmets, not paintings (David G. Alexander. Islamic Arms and Armor in The Metropolitan Museum of Art. Metropolitan Museum of Art. 31 December 2015. ISBN 978-1-58839-570-2. Page 308-308) in it. There is even French article about Türkmen ceramics. And this source ( https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/islam-2018-0035/html) has exact wording "Türkmen art". Need more?--Abutalub (talk) 21:27, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

I know, I've already noticed the non-WP:RS, WP:POVFORK, WP:SYNTH and WP:OR articles you've created, one which got translated into English, leading to me spending two hours to only rid some of the stuff that violated said rules. You've done the exact same here. You've cited Hayashi several times, a source which clearly states that Turkmen style is a Persian miniature painting variant that emerged in the 15th-century. Despite this, you went to add this to other stuff, what do you call that? I've checked the Alexander citation, it quite clearly talks about a certain armor style worn by Turkmens, which he indeed refers to the "Turkman style", but also "Turkman style armor" (which would be the name you should use), which is the name of the section. In other words, both authors make it pretty clear that these are two different things with similar names, yet you merged them together, that is what WP:SYNTH is. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:35, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Regardless of they are related or not, Türkmen helmet is still Turkman art. I can create Türkmen helmet category and add it to Agghoyunlu helmet image. Of course, Türkmen helmet does not mean that it is non-Islamic or non-Iranian style of helmet. The same way Türkmen miniature does not mean non-persian.--Abutalub (talk) 00:16, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

For the matter, you mentioned I can say this. I do not make connection between miniature and helmets in the article. Article clearly states that Türkmen miniature are originated from Shiraz and Tabriz while helmets even include Ottoman territory and Shirvan. I didn't want to create two different articles because of the point of practicality and because both works were related to Akkoyunlu and Karakoyunlu rule. If you want you can create two separate articles in Russian and English wiki. And other wikis would follow your lead.--Abutalub (talk) 00:34, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

You just proved my point. In Wikipedia we follow what WP:RS says, not what you find most practical, or what you consider to be x and y (in this case "Turkmen art"). Just follow what WP:RS says, then everyone is happy. HistoryofIran (talk) 01:07, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

But point of practicality is just only one aspect of my reasoning. All these art are done under Turkman dynasties so they can be grouped together. And I gave reference where the wording "Turkman art" is used but since you just try to prove your point you don't want to see it.--Abutalub (talk) 07:14, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't care about practically, just follow the rules. Please show me the WP:RS that states Turkmen style armor and the Persian art variant Turkmen style is "Turkmen art" (Hayashi and about every other art histoiran literally states the opposite) and not more pov pushing by you. HistoryofIran (talk) 13:33, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Türkmen art does not mean it is non-Iranian. It is simply art under Turcoman dynasties. Article does not omit facts about its Persian connections. For helmets, source states that this art is done in different workshops of Turcoman elites and source clearly states that Kurds, Iranians, armenians, Jews and other ethnicities also contributed to it and this fact is included in the article. I will try to research more about subject (Turkmen art).--Abutalub (talk) 16:48, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

So you have no source, as expected. Don't make up your own stuff, or I won't hesitate to report you. HistoryofIran (talk) 16:53, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I have source https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/islam-2018-0035/html . And it clearly states the word "Turkmen art" and "Turkmen cultural heritage"--Abutalub (talk) 16:59, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Let's try this again one final time; where does it state that the Turkmen style armor and the Persian art variant Turkmen style is "Turkmen art"? HistoryofIran (talk) 17:08, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Why don't you read sources? It begins with "Arts of Karakoyunlu and Akkoyunlu" and in the second paragraph, it is written that it is the stage of Persian art history. --Abutalub (talk) 17:15, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

You should do that yourself for starters, you can't even answer a basic question, because it's obviously not supported by WP:RS. Nowhere does it states Turkmen style armor and the Persian art variant Turkmen style is "Turkmen art". You're making your own personal interpretation out of nothing here. I've wasted enough time here, don't violate any other rules. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:19, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

"Arts of Karakoyunlu and Akkoyunlu dynasties" is what is written in the source. I am not making it up. Miniatures and helmets are just part of this art. And there are sources about Türkmen architecture, design and ceramics.--Abutalub (talk) 17:28, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

""Arts of Karakoyunlu and Akkoyunlu dynasties" is what is written in the source." So what? What does this prove? You can't cite a single citation that support your claims, this is sheer pov pushing / WP:SYNTH. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:36, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Türkmen style paintings and helmets were done under Turkmen Karakoyunlu and Akkoyunlu dynasties. They are arts of Karakoyunlu and Akkoyunlu even if they 100 percent iranian. At this point, it is impossible to find source that states the opposite.--Abutalub (talk) 17:46, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

This is hopeless... HistoryofIran (talk) 17:50, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

The mental gymnastics are incredible here. You're clearly not able to edit neutrally, as was already shown in the English Wikipedia a few years back and most recently in your WP:POVFORK "Azerbaijan-Mongolian cultural relations", when Azeris were not even close to becoming an ethnonym. I'm not interested in continuing this conversation further, as it's clearly pointless, just don't break anymore rules. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:58, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

You are changing the subject when I am winning the argument. But I will stay on the subject. It is clear that Turkmen art does not mean purely Turkic art. The same way Ilkhanid art does not mean purely Mongolian. But arts done under Turcoman elite are considered when art historians talk about the subject. And it is hard to imagine that any historian would exclude paintings or helmets when they talk about arts of Karakoyunlu and Akkoyunlu dynasties. Because it would be illogical. And there is zero reason to believe the opposite. --Abutalub (talk) 18:44, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

This was never an argument, this was me simply asking you to show a single citation for your claims, which you failed to, instead resorting to mental gymnastics, WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. HistoryofIran (talk) 18:57, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Didn't the reliable source I provided use the big word "Turkmen cultural heritage" to describe arts of XV century? Do you really think that someone would even think to exclude some kinds of art for whatever reason?--Abutalub (talk) 19:47, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Turkmen cultural heritage does not mean Turkmen art (the source is also about architecture only)..... and it does not mean that you can combine a Persian art variety with a Turkmen armor style under the name "Turkmen art" just because it fits your POV; you have no credentials, you're not qualified to do these kind of things, only WP:RS does...and guess what, it doesn't mention it. So cease this. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:57, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

And you've even tried to connect the Azeris to this article [1], when they didn't even exist back then. Just more pov pushing. HistoryofIran (talk) 19:59, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

You are wrong. Turkmen armor style does not mean purely Turkic. The reliable source I provided states that different ethnicities like Kurds, Iranians, Armenians contributed to this style and I included this fact in the article. The same way I don't think when speaking of Turkmen architecture someone think of architecture different from Islamic or Persian architecture. Because turkmens are nomadic people who live in the tents. There is no way they have their own style of architecture independent from Islamic and Persian styles. Türkmen art is just art under patronage of Turkmen dynasties whether or not the craftman is turk or Persian. --Abutalub (talk) 20:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Sigh... I never said that... Read this several times; You need a WP:RS (aka reliable source) that precisely states what you're describing about this "Turkmen art". If you can't, then keep it to yourself, Wikipedia is based on WP:RS, not your personal opinion. It's absolutely baffling that I have to explain this to a user who has been here since 2016. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:19, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it would be too difficult to find reliable source that considers paintings Turkmen art since Turkmen art just means art under patronage of Turkmen dynasties. I will do research about it. And don't forget that in the beginning of our conservation you demanded reliable source for using the wording "Turkmen art" and provided you with that by doing just one quick google search. Imagine what lies in the dungeons of online providers of peer-reviewed articles.--Abutalub (talk) 20:30, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but what are you even trying to say? You just said you would do more research, and then you say you already provided it...? You have provided zero, nada, nothing about "Turkmen art". You only showed there was something named "Turkman style armor", but that wasn't the point of this discussion... Again if you have no WP:RS to show, please keep it to yourself, I'm not interested in hearing your personal concept of this "Turkmen art" - you're not a historian. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:37, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

My article has references for ceramics, architecture and design. But you only accept armors? When I said that I will do research it means that I will use more peer-reviewed articles to expand the article and none of the sources so far I read does prove your view of subject. I even found reliable Brill source that states that nastalik calligraphy developed in Turkmen workshops and I will use this source in the article.--Abutalub (talk) 20:53, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Almost two whole days I have tried to explain the most simple stuff to you, yet you still haven't understood anything, we're still at square one. But then again, WP:CIR was also one of the reasons you were blocked. Your article is not a model for this, it's a pov ridden mess that engages in WP:SYNTH and historical negationism, claiming that the Azeris were a thing when they weren't [2]. But you won't be allowed to do the same in Commons, I'll keep an eye. I tried to explain, but it's hopeless, I'm outta here. HistoryofIran (talk) 20:59, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

My article is not done yet and I will do more research but the subject is too big for me to handle. So it would take time. Currently, I am working on Turkmen architecture then I would do ceramics and calligraphy and see if there is some other subject to cover. And if the source I use states Iranian connections I would definitely use it in the article. I already made it clear in the article that armors are product of influence of different ethnicities. Just be patient, dear fellow.--Abutalub (talk) 21:08, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

File:Map_of_Azeri_dialects.png

Please update this map. I tried to update but I can't overwrite it. Mastersun25 (talk) 19:31, 29 March 2024 (UTC)